Jeanette Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What is unique about the legal environment in Utah County?

Bill Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: If you compare the Utah County bar to bars in other parts of the country, we’re a fairly collegial group. We extend courtesies to other counsel. There’s a common denominator of expected good behavior.

Chris Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: I’m thrilled to practice law in such a wonderful valley. We have great people. We have a competitive growth dynamic. There are 600 attorneys, which is one per 1,000 people. We’re courteous and civil practitioners, which I really appreciate. Some of my best friends are my competitors. People can have a negative view of attorneys, but we buck that trend.

Michael Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: Most of Utah Valley’s companies are homegrown. You can’t pacify clients by saying, “There is a corporate culture in force, and I don’t really want to do this, but I have to.” Here we have a lot of multi-level marketing companies still run by their founders, and you don’t have corporate ill-will that sometimes you get with clients from New York and other places.

Patrick Burt, Kipp & Christian: Although Utah has a rapidly growing economic base, it still has a small legal community. I started my career in Phoenix, and you would never run into the same judge or attorney twice. Here you have to be conscientious about being professional because you are going to run into the same people later. You have to build up the camaraderie, because it’s going to help in future litigation matters.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What are some of the top legal concerns you are dealing with in our community right now?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Clearly, the recession has had an impact on the legal profession. We’re seeing more debtor/creditor issues, like foreclosures. We’re trying to find ways to help our corporate clients stay afloat.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: There’s a lot more attention paid to appropriate capitalization of entities. Several years ago people just needed a good idea and things would work. Now people are focusing on the fundamentals that have always been important. You have to be well capitalized. You have to have a firm business plan that will take you through ups and downs.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Cost is a big thing. Everybody is feeling a pinch. You have to consider how to comply with the laws so you avoid litigation. Or if you are in litigation, you need to get your best result without breaking the bank.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: We see a lot more settlements now rather than going to trial, and the cases settle much more quickly than they have in the past. Alternative compensation is a bigger deal now. We do a lot of flat fee work that we didn’t do before. I’m in the intellectual property field. It’s a difficult decision to cut back on an IP portfolio, but we’re seeing a lot of careful paring back.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What can business owners do to find a good attorney and then maintain a good relationship?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: All too often we find that a new startup business seeks out counsel in their Elder’s Quorum and ends up with a divorce lawyer doing corporate work. Shopping around is good. Asking the right questions helps. Once a relationship is established, honesty and good communication make it work.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: You should communicate with your attorney early and often. We specialize in civil litigation. People show up to us when the wheels have already fallen off. From there we find a good solution with the situation they have handed us. You’d be surprised how many situations could have been avoided. If you talk to an attorney early and often, they can steer you away from problem spots.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Nothing beats preventative medicine, no matter the profession.

Caleb Frischknecht, Ray Quinney & Nebeker: Communicate with your attorney and insist on reciprocal communications. Be clear at the outset what the fee arrangement is and the scope of work.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: As some companies grow, their biggest problem is getting rid of their president. The same thing is true for counsel; you can’t be afraid to grow your counsel as your company matures. I like loyalty. It’s an important part of a relationship, but sometimes either the attorney has to say “You’ve outgrown me,” or the company has to recognize that. It’s part of having an honest relationship with your client.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: The nature of law has changed. There used to be general practitioners, but now there is individual focus within a framework of a general practice. Quite frankly, being able to say no to a client and refer them out is difficult. I had a conversation with a fellow yesterday, and I told him that Bill Fillmore was perfect for this case. It wasn’t Chris Dexter. You need to know your limits to be good, and know the area to which you dedicate yourself.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: On the other side, business owners also need to know their limits. My mentor always told me you need to let the client know we are the surgeons. You have to trust us when you hand us your case. Obviously we want your input, obviously we want you in the know. But ultimately we are the surgeons, so trust us.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: How has technology changed your industry?

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: My first 25 minutes of everyday are spent going to five professional Web sites that offer opportunities to chat with other IP attorneys. I’m able to have a dialogue with 50 people from different states to establish best practices and raise the level of my personal practice. By doing that every day, I’m right up on top of the changes that happen in my profession.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Everything is faster. In most ways, it’s a good thing, but it is harder to walk away from your office and turn your phone off. We’re also going paperless at an accelerated rate.

Frischknecht, Ray Quinney & Nebeker: Technology has sped things up. Everyone, including the courts, expect accelerated responses. We must be careful in addressing these demands not to lose the art of contemplative and serious analysis of what to those with minimal exposure to the process sometimes mistakenly view as simple and straightforward; it heightens our responsibility to communicate clearly with our clients.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: Law books have become antiques. When I started practicing 15 years ago, law books were important. Then we received an updated CD each quarter. Now legal research is on the Internet. You can find things immediately. That’s good and bad. Sometimes the consumer thinks they have the knowledge and expertise to answer all of their questions just by Googling. That’s not the case. Lawyers should be used as advisers as entrepreneurs go through the life cycle of their businesses.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: There’s such a temptation for legal consumers to go online and find a form and fill in the blanks and think that’s adequate. That’s so deceptive. There is so much more complexity that goes into forming a business. They need legal guidance. Filling in blanks leads to trouble.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Bill mentioned speed. I think e-mail is a pro and con for business owners and lawyers. It makes communication much faster, but it’s much easier to send off something you shouldn’t. One of the first things we do when we get a case is gather e-mail correspondence. As business owners and executives, you have to be careful what you say in an e-mail because it can be brought into a legal case.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: There’s a false sense of security with office e-mails. They become the treasure trove. People need to be very careful of the defamation risks involved in shooting off e-mails in the heat of the moment as Patrick indicates.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: Take that one step further with Facebook. We’re seeing a lot of social media problems arise because people think what they are saying is confidential, but it’s not. People post things they wouldn’t say in a professional environment.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What myths about your profession would you like to dispel?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: By and large, in this county and in the state of Utah, the phrase “honest lawyer” is not an oxymoron. Most of our professional colleagues are very ethical.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: Most of the lawyers who get past all of the barriers to entry are there because they want to help people. We want to solve problems. I don’t know any other profession that gives more pro bono back to the community. Bill, for example, sits on many boards and gives of his time. Attorneys don’t have horns. We like people, we like to help businesses and we like to help families succeed. That’s what motivates me.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: When I first started practicing, people would say I was too nice to be a lawyer. The perception is that we are fighting tooth and nail — and billing you the entire time we’re doing it. My experience is you get a lot further in law and you get better results for your clients if you treat people kindly and if you give respect and have integrity. We want our clients to refer other clients. We want a good reputation in the community.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: There are lots of ways to get rewarded in our field. Money was an important motivator early on. As I’ve gotten older, money is less important and I strive for other things. An attorney who is striving for appreciation and relationships is going to do things for free, and all you have to do is invite him out to lunch and be open and honest with him. As the population ages, you have a lot of older attorneys who aren’t driven by money, but are driven by relationships.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What are some of the common ways businesses are charged for legal services?

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: Everything I do is fixed fee, except for some contract negotiations. Clients know up front what they will pay. They know it’s going to cost them $650. If it’s $659, they will call me. People like fixed fee. I like it, too. Perhaps 30 percent of what an attorney does is fight with accounting and fight with a client over bills. It’s a complete waste of time.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: The fixed fee model is wonderful. I don’t know if I could afford to sign up for a blank check of $250 an hour with the risk of it ending up being $3,000 or $4,000 or much more. That is beyond the comfort level of a small- or medium-sized business. With fixed fee, clients can call the attorney without fearing, “Gee, I’m going to get this ticky-tacky bill for copies or a phone call.”

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Since most of our work is civil litigation, each case is unique and a flat fee usually won’t work. We go with the tried-and-true hourly rate, but we always make sure to provide a budget. Our firm is also good about sending monthly status letters to clients.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What are common legal needs that family businesses need to address?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: One of the key things is a succession plan. What happens when Dad dies? Failure to answer that question legally can sometimes lead to frustration and bitterness in families. You are well advised to take care of that in advance.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: The theme this morning seems to be communication. Attorneys can facilitate that communication within a family. Sometimes it’s difficult for family members to have those conversations without a disinterested third party.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Chris mentioned this earlier. You should have an attorney on board when you start the business. Sometimes family businesses aren’t ready for growth. Sometimes their paperwork or structure is not set up for that. They need ongoing legal counsel. Avoid the handshake oral agreements that often go along with family businesses. You need documentation and paper trails.

Frischknecht, Ray Quinney & Nebeker: Family businesses are very interesting. They involve succession issues, how to capitalize for growth, when and if to involve venture capital, how to pass on interests through estate planning, and a variety of other issues for a business that is dear to the heart of those who created it.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: If there is an attorney on board in a family business, it’s good to know who the attorney represents. Sometimes the attorney thinks he’s representing the company’s best interests, but family members have other ideas. The family needs to know the attorney’s role ahead of time.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: How have changes in real estate affected you?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: We’re doing a lot of negotiations with banks. Real estate developers have been turned upside down. The appraised value of their properties is now less than their loans. This creates all kinds of problems for the lender and borrower — and a lot of legal work to be done in that regard. Frankly, some of the best men and women in this valley are under water and struggling to find a way out of the recession. There are things that can be done, strategies for negotiating with borrowers. There is a considerable increase in these types of cases.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: We practice bankruptcy law. There was a decrease of cases after October 2005, but now it has come back with a vengeance. Unfortunately, some get themselves into situations that are unwise from the start; but most who face bankruptcy are well intended. Nobody wants to file bankruptcy. They would like to negotiate their way out and honor their commitments, but the economy manifests itself in terrible ways.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: The big problem in this valley and this state is the credit crunch. We’ve seen a lot of our clients who have done everything to weather the storm. They’ve cut expenses, they’ve laid off non-essential employees. They’ve cut back on frills and office parties. They’ve restructured their insurance plan, and the storm is still raging. They are up against the wall thinking the credit markets will ease up, but despite all the talk out of Washington, it hasn’t. Credit is still tough. Even those who are willing to lend are facing far heavier regulatory schemes. It’s a problem that isn’t going away quickly. I’m worried about small businesses who are stretched as far as they can go. The light isn’t there yet for a lot of them, and they don’t have much more capacity to protect their businesses. We’ve got to ease up the credit market.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: The national focus should be on small- and medium- sized business, which are truly the backbone of our local economy. If they can’t access capital, they can’t make payroll when things are tight. They can’t expand. They can’t do a lot of the things that would bless the lives of their employees.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: I bet Michael sees these trends in his IP practice.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: We’re doing more provisional pats. The real estate side, interestingly enough, has benefited tech companies because there’s cheap space out there right now. Tech companies have weathered the storm better than most. Most of my clients are hiring. They have a little more money to spend on IT because they are spending less on rent.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: Let’s look forward. I know you have a front seat to the trends in the local economy. What do you foresee happening in our community in the next 10 years?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: The economy is going to rebound. We have a remarkable entrepreneurial engine in this county that is not on its deathbed. It’s been suppressed by a lack of credit, but we’ll see a rebound. The Utah economy has done better than most states.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Utah didn’t get hit as hard as other regions because of our entrepreneurial spirit, our fighter mentality. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Utah rebound fairly quickly.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: The state and local government leaders have done a great job keeping us in the black and staying on top of revenue decreases. We’re well positioned for the future.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: One thing Utahns understand — and the national politicians need to understand — is that capitalism is still good. Self-interest rightly understood is a good thing. As we move forward with ideas and develop in a competitive way, we can make great things happen. That is why America has led the world this last century. We are the good guys economically and socially. As long as we are responsible and respectful in the way we do business and the way we live our lives, we can still be a great force.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: My prediction is that in the IP world, we’re going to see a lot more globalization. If not in the next 10 years, soon after we’ll see a world patent. We’ll also see movement toward multidisciplinary practices where attorneys work in offices with accountants and engineers where a client can come in and get all those benefits from one visit.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What is the job market like for those coming out of law school now?

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: With two law schools in the state, we are churning out 300 new lawyers per year. Both schools prepare their graduates for big firm practice and constitutional law practice, and the reality is that many end up in small- to medium-sized firms, so it’s incredibly competitive. I’ve received 30 inquiries lately from people saying “Please, please can I work for free to get experience?”

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: A lot of the 2009 graduates are starting now because they were deferred by law firms last year. Not only are firms not hiring people this year, but they are filling the few jobs they do have with people from last year.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: We read about big law firms laying off substantial numbers of young lawyers. That’s tough. A lot of young lawyers would be wise to see law school as a stepping stone to another profession.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: It’s a great time to be in law school, though. It’ll come around.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What final message would you like to leave with our readers in regards to the legal industry?

Burt, Kipp & Christian: For business owners, it’s crucially important to find the right attorney and be in touch often. Keep them in the loop as business grows.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Most lawyers want to be perceived as a client’s friend and not a necessary evil. We want to be there for them.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: We take pride in our clients’ successes. It’s a joint venture.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: As attorneys, we can make a positive impact not only on the local community but on solving some of the issues people are dealing with. We are here to help.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: Thank you for your time today. I learned a lot, and I know our readers will, too.

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Jeanette Bennett, BusinessQ: What makes Utah Valley such a great place to start a business?

Neal Maxfield, Entrepreneurship Institute at UVU: It’s a culture that continues year after year. I have students in our entrepreneurship program whose parents have their own businesses. They’ve seen it modeled, and they have an excitement about business. Many start businesses as young college students.

Sonny Olsen, Heideman, McKay, Heugly & Olsen: Before becoming an attorney, I worked for dot-com startups. I would travel around the country, and people would ask why Utah County is another Silicon Valley. It’s a culture thing. People in this area are focused. They have fewer hobbies and fewer social activities in the evenings. They have fewer distractions and more support. Also, the culture is focused on networking, and there are simply some very bright people here.

Lance Black, Eli Kirk: Part of our culture is go to school and get an education. We have good people here, and when we put good people in good businesses, we thrive.

Eddy Hood, Dashboard Accountants: There’s a really strong mentorship mentality here. There are great angels, investors and lenders. These people take pride in saying, “I’ll take you under my wing.” You’ve got guys like Alan Hall, Greg Warnock and Brent Crabtree who will take time to help you grow your business.

Kiley Hix, Strategic Staffing: It’s a tight community with a lot of independent thinkers. In the staffing industry, we deal with businesses that are making decisions quickly. Entrepreneurs graduate from college and are ready to take on the world. Utah County breeds that independent nature, that entrepreneurial spirit.

Brandon Fugal, Coldwell Banker: We live in a very pro-business state. Most of the business owners in California right now feel like they’re penalized for being successful. Utah is fostering development and playing into our young, highly-educated workforce — and that entrepreneurial spirit we have. We have the perfect storm of benefits to foster growth in a difficult market.

David Decker, Complete Merchant Solutions: I agree that the culture and independence factor in, but it’s also out of necessity. I’m from Washington, D.C., and the mindset there is quite different. There are many large companies with established brands that have strongholds on market share, and the barrier to entry is daunting. Comparatively, in Utah there are more small to midsized companies so the opportunities of working up the corporate ladder at a blue chip firm are harder to come by. But that’s the beauty of Utah. There aren’t five large companies in every vertical that have the market cornered, so if you look hard enough, there are soft spots or ways to penetrate market share.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Utah is second in the nation for population growth — second only to Wyoming. How does population factor into our business growth?

Hix, Strategic Staffing: It makes for a great labor market. Even when unemployment was at 2.8 percent two years ago, you could find good employees. You might have had to turn over a few more rocks, but you could find employees.
Lee Livingston, Fibernet: Population growth means you need more businesses to feed the families, and that fosters economic growth and builds the economic cycles in the communities.

Fugal, Coldwell Banker: Having a growing demographic gives you a strategic position to grow your business. Companies succeed if they continue to recruit and retain key employees.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Is now a good time to start a business?

Hix, Strategic Staffing: Yes! Everything is on sale.

Greg Fix, Big-D Construction: It is less expensive to start a business today than it was in 2008. You’re starting at a low point and can build over time. The opportunities in the next two years are going to be great.

Olsen, Heideman, McKay, Heugly & Olsen: People hear the word recession and cringe. But recessions are the best opportunities to find value, not just in real estate, but in buying and selling businesses. It may not be the optimum time to start a business, but it’s a great time to acquire a business that may need some retooling. We’ve seen a dramatic increase in legal work for angel investors and securities. Many people have pulled money out of the market and have cash waiting to be invested — and they are investing in entrepreneurs and in businesses.

Fix, Big-D Construction: There’s a great network of people out there who are interested in investing in good ideas and in startup companies.

Hood, Dashboard Accountants: Any business that starts in this economy is going to start lean and stay lean. As we do the books for businesses, I can tell which ones started in the fat period as opposed to the skinny period. We are teaching the “fat ones” how to budget.
Fugal, Coldwell Banker: Right now, there are deals on commercial space. Businesses can procure free rent, furniture and other concessions they wouldn’t otherwise be able to benefit from. Landlords hate to hear that, but it’s a reality right now. If you’re looking to lease space, it’s a very competitive market. It’s a great time to be a new business.

Hood, Dashboard Accountants: It’s also a great time to hire. Every time we put a “help wanted” ad out, we get 50 resumes within a couple of hours and they’re all college graduates. You can build a great staff and not go broke doing it.

Hix, Strategic Staffing: If you’re in a position to hire, you’re going to get the cream of the crop. It’s a great time.

Black, Eli Kirk: Technology also makes it a great time to start a business. Somebody on a bootstrap budget can start a business using social tools and bring awareness to their concept or product or brand. Facebook brings a trusted friend network. If I have 700 friends on Facebook and I’m trusted among those friends, then what I say is gold. And then they’ll re-tweet it or discuss it among friends. So in talking to five friends, I can really talk to 3,000.

Fix, Big-D Construction: Our valley has amazing networking opportunities with the Utah Valley Chamber of Commerce, Corporate Alliance and ConnectShare. Add social networking, and there are relatively inexpensive ways to get to know people. People do business with people they know and trust. I really believe that.

Hood, Dashboard Accountants: When a business starts, sometimes they mistakenly take all their capital and go buy office space and business cards and fancy chairs. We tell them not to do that. Every dollar you have should be spent on marketing and getting customers. Then let your customers pay for all that other stuff once they’re paying you. Capital is a finite resource. Don’t blow your money on things that aren’t bringing in customers.

Bennett, BusinessQ: At what point should a startup develop its brand?

Black, Eli Kirk: Yesterday! Your brand is your customers’ perception of your product or service that they get in aggregate over time. It’s much more than a logo. It’s their experience when they call customer service. It’s the experience when they see a collateral piece from you or talk to one of your sales reps, or have a problem with a product and have to return it. A brand will happen regardless of whether you drive it. Who the boss says you are is not necessarily who you are. Who your customers think you are is who you really are.

Fix, Big-D Construction: Our people are our brand. We are who our employees make us.

Maxfield, Entrepreneurship Institute at UVU: Perception precedes using a service or company. If you can create a strong perception quickly, you’ve created value.

Olsen, Heideman, McKay, Heugly & Olsen: People need to spend money and get good advice on branding and marketing in order to get recognition and build their volume. For some companies, image is so important because they don’t have the relationships yet. They deal more in volume. For us, we focus more on relationships.

Maxfield, Entrepreneurship Institute at UVU: When I owned Maxfield Candy, we first had just a generic business card. Then we went to chocolate colored. Then later we photographed the chocolate and put it on our business card. So immediately people would know we sell boxed chocolate. Your logo and materials need to communicate quickly and clearly.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What are the accounting tasks that need to be addressed from day one?

Hood, Dashboard Accountants: Number one, they need to realize sales is the most important thing. You’ve got to get money in the door. The second most important thing is to track it. If you don’t track it, you’re going to lose it. Startups need to have three to six months of cash to cover operating expenses. Most of their operating expenses should be marketing. As clients come in the door, they should use that revenue to fuel growth of their business. Also, they need a cash flow forecast, not a pie in the sky. Sales is not cash. A sale is a transaction. Cash is what I get four months later when they finally pay me. You also need an accountant. Don’t be cheap on how you track money — and don’t be cheap on marketing.

Livingston, Fibernet: If a company is a service provider or has a complex product line, they need to know exactly what the costs associated with those products are. Reporting is such a key element. Set up the income and expense categories so you know how and what to sell effectively.

Hood, Dashboard Accountants: There’s no way you can grow if you don’t know where you’re sitting at all times.

Hix, Strategic Staffing: You also need to know what kind of corporation is best for you. If you grow too big too fast and you weren’t set up properly, you limit your financial capabilities. Are you going to hire employees? Workers comp? General liability insurance? These factors need to be thought out as you structure your business. When looking for trusted advisers, ask people in your network who they would recommend. If you sell widgets, you should seek out the best widget maker in Utah and see if he or she will share experiences with you.

Decker, Complete Merchant Solutions: As we transition to less of a cash-based society, businesses cannot survive unless they accept credit cards. I’d venture to say less than 25 percent of people under age 44 carry cash. But be cautious when selecting a provider. Taking credit cards pertains to your cash flow, so it’s critical you understand what and who you’re committing to. I cannot imagine trusting the lion share of my revenue to a company 2,000 miles away. Find a local company that will explain electronic payment processing and listen to your needs.

Bennett, BusinessQ: How does an entrepreneur figure out all the complexities when he or she would prefer to simply focus on the great idea?

Hix, Strategic Staffing: Bring in a team of advisers. You need an accountant. You need an adviser to tell you how much to pay yourself if you’re an S-corp. You need a marketing team.

Olsen, Heideman, McKay, Heugly & Olsen: You need the right representation. If you’re starting a sophisticated enterprise and you’re projecting millions in revenue, it’s extremely important that you get the right advice, and it’s relatively inexpensive compared to the other startup costs.

Hix, Strategic Staffing: There are companies like Omniture in Utah County that started with five employees and are now publicly traded. You need to take those possibilities into consideration.

Olsen, Heideman, McKay, Heugly & Olsen: The last thing you want to do is have the ability to go public and have somebody say, “You’re an S-corp? You need to be a C-corp for two years. Sorry you missed your opportunity.” That gives your competitors time to get into the market. You need a relationship with an attorney.

Livingston, Fibernet: To Sonny’s point, the setting up of a C-corporation or S-corporation has a big impact on the exit strategy. All of those factors have to be taken into consideration.

Maxfield, Entrepreneurship Institute at UVU: This brings to mind a UVU student who started a business a couple of years ago who wants to grow and sell it. If that’s your vision from the beginning, it makes a difference as to how you set it up. You have to have that vision all the way through. You have to decide are you going to be local? Are you going to grow nationally? What are you going to be doing with the life of your business?

Bennett, BusinessQ: When a business is starting out, how do they anticipate what kind of office space they need? How do they plan for growth?

Fugal, Coldwell Banker: Business owners can never be too proactive when it comes to space requirements. All too often business owners leave that decision to the end and then compromise their ability to negotiate from a position of strength. The earlier in the process you identify the right type of facility for your company, the more thoughtful you can be as you navigate the entire process. A lot of companies don’t look toward a three-to-five-year plan for growth. But the decisions they make upfront relative to their commercial space can have a huge impact on whether their operations can be effective or end up being displaced in multiple locations, which presents a major difficulty.

Fix, Big-D Construction: Knowledge is power. We like to begin with the end in mind and help the owner understand what the costs are going to be before they even get into the design process. Establish what the budget is and then go through that design process and design to what the budget needs to be.

Fugal, Coldwell Banker: People grapple with do I own or do I lease. Right now in the market where global finance is challenged, people don’t recognize there are tremendous opportunities with SBA financing. There are small business loans available. The key is you have to still be profitable. You still have to show profitability, and a lot of early-stage businesses can’t show that. If you can show a track record for profitability, in many cases it makes more sense to own your space. On the flipside, most of the Fortune 500 lease their space. Why? Because they need to be quick and nimble. Any business looking toward growth needs to afford themselves the ability to expand, contract, and to be quick and nimble — which leasing provides. On the flip side, if you are a doctor or an established company and your space needs aren’t going to change in the foreseeable future, it’s wise to create a profit center for yourself by building equity in your space as opposed to giving that equity to a third party. Each type of business has its own needs, and I’ve seen businesses end up building a building that is a monument to themselves that reflects the culture. But the exit strategy isn’t there, the ability to multi-tenant that building doesn’t effectively exist and it ends up being more of a handicap. There are a lot of considerations that go into a facilities planning strategy.

Livingston, Fibernet: If you are going to own your own property, it’s another business. You have to carefully consider where you want to spend not only your time resources, but your capital resources. It’s a huge expense. Are you going to spend your money on real estate or on building your business? What is your core business?

Olsen, Heideman, McKay, Heugly & Olsen: If you’re going to own something, you need to be smart about how you set up the shell to own it. In a lot of cases, you want to set up a separate entity. There can be serious liability implications from owning property that you don’t want to affect your core business.

Fix, Big-D Construction: Many times an owner will setup a separate entity and then lease it back to the company.

Bennett, BusinessQ: It’s not a guarantee that when you start your business, it will succeed. What do you see as commonalities among businesses that do succeed?

Black, Eli Kirk: It’s drive. It’s vision. It’s somebody who does not get too worried about the shortfalls and has the big picture vision and passion. Success in business is also based on having a culture and process in place to ensure customers are raving fans of your company — not just satisfied customers. Also, strengthening relationships with others — whether or not they are potential clients — is imperative to long-term business growth. We can’t see people as objects or as a means to a future business relationship, but instead we must look at ways we can help them.

Livingston, Fibernet: There was a time in history when the Internet was not a significant factor in the success of a business. Today it is one of just a few keys to perpetuating and having a successful business. One of the key factors to succeed is having an effective Web site. If you don’t have that, you are going to be outcompeted. But putting up a Web site does not guarantee anything. Marketing and driving traffic to a site is an essential key.

Fix, Big-D Construction: That’s the first place people start looking, so it’s essential to success. Also, an entrepreneur needs a strong will to succeed. One of the most important things is stay focused on why you started your business. What was it that brought the idea about? Focus on what you are an expert in and then hire people around you for what weaknesses you might have. Sometimes we try to do so much that we don’t focus on what we’re best at. We try to do all the things that bog us down in a business.

Hood, Dashboard Accountants: Number one, a successful entrepreneur is not afraid to ask. In a sales appointment, he’s not afraid to ask for the close. Entrepreneurs who are timid will fail. Two, you need a healthy respect for cash. Once cash is gone, you’re gone. Three, you have to delegate everything you aren’t good at. Get it off your plate. You don’t have enough time to do everything. If you are wearing so many hats that you have a kink in your neck, you’re going to fail. Four, the CEO has to be the best sales person in that business. The CEO should be out knocking doors with the sales manager every day.

Fugal, Coldwell Banker: Success in business comes down to identifying a need and filling that need in the marketplace and being able to execute on that. That’s the core of your business strategy. Identify it and then outline a strategy where you’re filling that need and doing it better than anyone else. The older I get, I’m less impressed by people who have money than I am with people who are excellent at what they do. People who have an eye toward excellence impress me, and it doesn’t matter whether they are a schoolteacher, an engineer, an artist or a CEO of a multinational organization. Whatever your business is, be excellent.

Decker, Complete Merchant Solutions:
You are not going to evolve without making mistakes — it’s part of the process. We were recently taken by a professional scam ring out of Los Angeles for more than $100,000. They used stolen identities and forged documents to open a merchant account. This was an expensive lesson. From this we’ve become much more aware of risk exposure. So be patient with yourself because you won’t always be perfect in your execution. And in conjunction with that, align yourself with capital outlets. Establish credit lines or keep angel investors in the wings just in case you have a Los Angeles-type experience of your own. Also maintain an abundance mentality rather than a scarcity mentality. Karma is so important. When you treat customers and partners well, they’ll spread the word.

Hix, Strategic Staffing: Some of the training seminars that I’ve been to talk about how businesses should keep it simple. Focus on one, two or three core things you do as a business. Those are your goals, dreams and passions. Be quick and nimble and able to change what you do. Last year we had to rapidly change what we did. As a business owner, be able to wear different hats and adapt to the circumstances.

Maxfield, Entrepreneurship Institute at UVU: It comes down to finding something you love. Passion comes from within. Even with passion, it takes experience to understand the marketplace and needs of the customer. The owner of a business is the one who really drives it. You’ll be first one there, the last one out and last one to get paid. You have to love what you do.

Olsen, Heideman, McKay, Heugly & Olsen: Our law firm has been known as a litigation firm, but now we are focusing on relationships and our business clients. Business people need sound short-term and long-term legal advice. Companies that are successful value relationships as well. Whether it’s Brandon with real estate or David with merchant services, you can’t do everything and you need to form relationships with others who can help you. It doesn’t matter how brilliant you are, if you aren’t getting good advice and setting up your business properly, you’ll run out of cash, you’ll lose focus and your customers will recognize it. Build a network of people who will live and die with you.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Thank you for your advice on starting a business.

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Jeanette Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What is it like to be a woman in business in Utah County?

Cynthia Gambill, Remedez HairSpa: There are certain aspects of being an entrepreneur here in Utah County that are very ideal, such as workforce, the character and the caliber of women. And then there are other aspects that are less than ideal, such as historical ideas of what women should be doing here in Utah. The truth is there are more women in the workforce here in Utah County than men.

Jessica Devenish, Checknet: I always read that, but when I go to a local business retreat or seminar, I’m certainly not the majority. I sit at a table where I’m one woman with nine or 10 men.

Gambill, Remedez: I have 40 employees and they are all women, but they are obviously not the CEO or CFO. Many women in the workforce are behind desks doing clerical work or being assistants in law offices. They aren’t always attending leadership meetings or retreats.

Kathy Anderson, Fillmore Spencer LLC: We see a lot of entrepreneurial women coming to our law offices and starting businesses, but a lot of them are home-based. Women often like to find things they can do at home with their kids.
Laura Jarman, Dear Lizzie: We have amazingly talented women in this valley in all different fields — the caliber of teachers, entrepreneurs and artists is inspiring. It’s fun to be in business in this community because women — and men — are succeeding in their own fields.

Jill Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: My identity as a woman business owner isn’t really in Utah County because I do a lot of business outside the state. But I do know women are underrepresented in Utah County boardrooms. I’m usually the only female in the conference room, but I don’t look at it as intimidating. It’s wonderful there is at least that one female in the conference room. I do enjoy seeing local female entrepreneurs because they are adding income to their homes while raising children. That is the kind of home I was raised in. My mom was always integrating additional money-making opportunities into the home.

Gambill, Remedez: I have read that 40 percent of women in the workplace are the main breadwinners. It’s not just an addition to the family income — it’s the only source of income in the family.
Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: I spoke to the entrepreneurial department in UVU back in January, and I asked the chairman about the male/female ratio in the department. He said for every 10 men, there is one woman. So it is important for females to get out there and identify themselves in whatever business capacity they are in because we can make a difference in encouraging women to get an education and consider a future in business.

Anderson, Fillmore Spencer: At the BYU law school, 39 percent of the incoming first-year students are female this year. I think they will pass the 50 percent mark, and that’s a great thing. We have a few female attorneys in our office, and it adds an important dimension to have them there.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Have you ever felt misunderstood by other women in the community?

Anderson, Fillmore Spencer: In my neighborhood, most women stay at home. I’m the odd man out. How I view things and how I handle things are different than the majority of people surrounding me. Not that it’s good or bad — it’s just different.

Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: Like Kathy, I deal with being the odd man out. As far as being misunderstood, I’ve just come to understand that it is a part of me. As an entrepreneur, I tend to be misunderstood because what is going on in my brain might not be what is going on in everybody else’s brain. I can be misunderstood in more than just my gender. I used to live in an older community where the women had raised their children, so there was more career camaraderie among us. I moved to a different community, and it was quite contraire. Whatever our choice is, I would hope there would be camaraderie among us. I’m a big advocate of supporting others.

Devenish, Checknet: I wish there was more camaraderie among girls from elementary school to high school and on through adulthood. My whole life I have been misunderstood by other women. A lot of my best friends are guys — I have girls that are best friends, too — but it just seems that women are always misunderstood. There is never the camaraderie that you would hope among our gender.

Gambill, Remedez: There is a sense of trying to justify the fact that I am not home like a lot of my neighbors. I live in a town where most women are at home and don’t need to work. There is also a cultural background concerning women in the workplace that has affected the community — not necessarily for good.

Devenish, Checknet: Maybe I surround myself with women who all work because my best friends all work. They might not be the CEO, but they all work full time.

Gambill, Remedez: Personally, I don’t know myself without a career. I didn’t get married until I was 36 and had my first child at 37. So, in this community I am the odd man because of my age as well as my career choice. There are a lot of books written about finding the balance of your home and your career. What is balance anyway? Balance is different for everyone. I know what balance is for me. I know I can’t be at school and at work at the same time, and I have to be OK with that. It’s all about the choices and decisions we have to make.

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: We hear a lot about the “time and a season” concept. I’ve been highly involved with the schools in a different season in my life, but I’m at a different place now. It can be discouraging sometimes because you would like to be involved in the ways you were before, but you can’t. You gave it your all when that was your moment to do it, and now your attention is drawn elsewhere. I’ve been very lucky in my neighborhood and community to have a lot of support. They see the pull of the business and the intensity of the demands.

Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: Do you find it interesting that as females we have a greater need to justify or defend ourselves? Instead of having to defend why you can’t be the PTA president this year, your merits should stand for themselves.

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: We need to be mutually supportive. It is hard to be a mommy at home with little children. I’ve had women say to me, “I understand your time is limited” or “you work so hard.” But I’m thinking, “You work so hard, too,” and “your time is limited, too.” I appreciate that they give me that benefit, but at the same time I understand they are also busy.

Bennett, BusinessQ: How do you feel about balance — the word we all hate to hear but always think about?

Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: A partner at home is very helpful for balance. If you have someone at home who can prioritize the family and the home life equally, then it’s a huge factor. It could be difficult to have 100 percent of the needs of the children met when you don’t have that kind of support.

Gambill, Remedez: I don’t believe in balance because I don’t think it exists. But I do believe in good communication with your spouse or your partner or whomever you live with. Technology can put all your schedules together when you meet daily, weekly or monthly. I do believe people can become very good at scheduling; scheduling is more important to me than balance.

Devenish, Checknet: I cringe when I get asked about balance. My husband and I don’t do 50/50, we each do 100 percent. I’m not very good at saying no, but over the years I’ve learned my limitations. I have to say, “I’d really like to be part of that, but I’m going to have to pass this time,” which is hard as a woman in business because you want to be out there and be part of the community. But sometimes, you just have to say no.

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: There is this thing out there for women that says you can have it all — you can have your family, you can have your career. I‘ve decided I’m not a big believer in that. We do it all, but I don’t think it necessarily means we have it all. When one thing rises up, another thing drops down, such as attention to your children or spouse. And that requires a lot of sacrifice. When I really went full steam ahead with my business, it was hard on me and hard on them. Now we’ve come to a new balance because with time you figure out how to make it work. It’s good — it’s challenging, but good.

Anderson, Fillmore Spencer: You can’t be 100 percent mom or 100 percent wife or 100 percent businesswoman all at the same moment. You do have to know your limitations. That’s a hard thing to figure out. We need to say, “I’m just not going to do this” and feel OK with that.

Gambill, Remedez: It comes down to choices.

Anderson, Fillmore Spencer: You have to make the choices as to what works for you and your family. I don’t have a partner at home, but I have parents who support me and who make a difference so I can be a mom and a career woman and do everything to support my family.

Gambill, Remedez: I always think about when my kids are my age, how are they going to talk about me? What did she do? Was she involved with the community? Was she an educated woman who could maintain a conversation without shutting down? A woman in business is not just about money; it’s about many things in life we need to prepare ourselves for. We need to be our best selves and contribute in meaningful ways.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What have been your experiences as you employ women who are also going through the whole balancing issue we’re talking about?

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: I personally love it. There is so much we can do for each other. As women in business we can support all the different roles women have by focusing on the gifts of the person who is before us. Really what women can do best is provide an environment where they are safe, appreciated and understood in all these ways we’re talking about — families, husbands and challenges at home. As women we can let our businesses be personal and allow that part of it in. It invites challenges, but it also invites other positive things.

Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: It’s important in a business environment to have boundaries with the injection of the personal world. As far as females go, my first employees were my sisters and my mother. I learned a lot as it relates to working with family and females and integration. Ten years ago, a girl who still works for me called because her son had an ear infection and she had to take him to the doctor. She was going through the rounds of defending her position with this child, and I had to tell her, “Hey, work will always be secondary — your children will always be the most important.” It’s hard to maintain those kinds of standards when your business is on the line, but when you can maintain those standards, the employees are empowered to give everything they can.

Gambill, Remedez: When our fathers were climbing the ladder in corporate America, most of our mothers were at home. These last two generations of women started making it in corporate America, and we’ve added that female touch. For the first 15 years of my career I was corporate. I noticed the more women a company hired, the more the business softened overall.

Devenish, Checknet: I work with my mom and sisters, and we have an office full of women. It’s camaraderie in a very positive, passionate way. It’s like the “you go girl” attitude. When girls get past those misunderstandings, it’s such a powerful feeling because there is no stopping you. We can change the world as a group. We do have heart in a different way than men do. Sometimes it’s a strength, sometimes it’s a weakness. The heart — the word heart — is just different in a man and a woman. Not better — just different.

Gambill, Remedez: One weakness women have is we aren’t able to leave our work at work. We take the work home, and it may affect our relationships with the ones we love.

Devenish, Checknet: That’s when it’s bad. We don’t know how to disconnect and drop the anchor. We always hold onto it.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What other strengths do women have in a business setting?

Anderson, Fillmore Spencer: Like Jessica said, we view things differently. We’re able to see the bigger picture. Men are sometimes more narrow-minded, whereas women see the whole picture and how it is going to affect everybody. I also think the heart that we’re talking about builds loyalty with your employees when you understand they have a crisis at home. They are so happy you understand that it builds loyalty, and they are more willing to put in the extra effort.

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: Women are good multi-taskers. Women can juggle a lot of things in business — they’ve had practice.

Gambill, Remedez: We are resourceful because of the very nature of having to do a lot of things. We don’t shut our brains off when we get home. We keep on running, and I don’t know if I stop.

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: I like the energy that comes with women working together in the workplace or in the community. When you get hard workers together, great things happen. It’s fun and inspiring to see other women in action doing the things they do best. It’s like what you said, that “go girl” attitude. If we can be supportive and let social things drop away, great things happen because we understand each other.

Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: We are also good communicators. From my experience among the females, amazing brainstorming sessions have surfaced. When you feel trusted and safe in an environment to throw ideas out there without being ridiculed or criticized, amazing things happen. That’s one of the things I really believe is a positive for our gender.

Bennett, BusinessQ: How has technology been a blessing and a challenge as you meet the demands of your varied roles?

Gambill, Remedez: I could not survive without a Blackberry. I still have younger children — my oldest is 11 and youngest is 6. I am not sure if I like the idea of communicating with my children or my spouse via text or e-mails. But I’m fighting a losing battle because it’s easier to pick up this piece of technology and text my husband or my employees or my friends, but we’re losing a little bit of touch. It’s high-tech, low-touch. It is useful because it has made us even more effective and efficient. But it has taken away a lot of the nurturing aspect that women naturally can give.

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: It makes everything so much faster. You feel like your lives — your weeks and your days — go by so fast. Everything is so immediate with the information you can get and the information you can give. There is never any lag time. You can get your answers right away. It is a blessing and a curse all at once.

Devenish, Checknet: The one bad thing that supersedes everything is that you never disconnect. If I’m out of the office for a couple of days and I don’t respond immediately, there’s that level of dissatisfaction. I also feel like we’re never with the person we’re with. We are always checking an e-mail or a text, and there is a lack of quality in that.

Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: It allows us to manage more. I know my communication is pretty critical, but it has been important to establish boundaries. If you build patterns that teach people you are going to respond to their e-mails in five minutes, then when you don’t, it’s disappointing for them. We want to be there for others always — that’s the female in us. My husband is horrified because every morning when I wake up, the first thing I do is check my e-mail. I say, “You know what? When everything is calm and good in my Blackberry, I can actually wander downstairs. But if there is some catastrophe that ensued overnight, I can manage it straightaway.” Technology is a blessing and a curse — but I think it’s more of a blessing than a curse.

Gambill, Remedez: It really is such a blessing. How did we used to communicate with our mothers if we forgot our lunch?

Anderson, Fillmore Spencer: It makes it easier to be out of the office when you need to deal with the kids or the family. Even when you’re doing something happy like a school program, you are still connected to the office, so it’s not like you’re off in never-never land when a crisis happens. For me, it makes it a little bit easier to take care of both sides. Most of the time, I see it as a blessing, but there are times when you would like to throw it out the window.

Bennett, BusinessQ: How has your career affected your marriage?

Devenish, Checknet: My relationship with my husband has been nothing but enhanced. We do work together, but we haven’t always. When I had been in business for four years, he came to work for us. It’s wonderful. I see disconnect with friends who become frustrated because their husband is late at work or their wife is late at work, and they don’t understand what’s actually happening in the office. We don’t have that disconnect because if I’m working late, he knows the project I am working on. If a client calls and needs him when we’re at dinner, I know he needs to take the call. I love having him in the office everyday. I look forward to spending the time with him. We go to lunch all the time. We are better friends because we have that second type of communication.

Gambill, Remedez: A working career woman is not for every man. For some men, they feel resentment. I work with my husband, too, so I feel exactly the same. But I work with a lot of women and have a lot of female clients who get home and have to fight the battle and justify being gone all day. There are a lot of divorces as a result of people fighting battles.

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: It’s the battle of who is working harder. My husband works with me, and we love working together. There is a lot of respect in that relationship because of the things he brings to make it all work and the things I bring to make it all work. The level of sacrifice on both sides is mutually acknowledged.

Gambill, Remedez: It sounds like we are pretty lucky in this room. This is not the norm — we just picked good men. Even in the 2009-2010 year, I still see that some men do not understand it that way — particularly in Utah County.

Devenish, Checknet: It makes me more grateful for what I have. When my husband can see I’m going to be late, I don’t have to explain. With the women who work for me, I hear the explaining and defending and they feel guilty.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Lastly, what do you want your daughters to understand about their possible future as a woman in business?

Devenish, Checknet: I tell all of my children they can be whatever they want. They have seen me do what I love, and I want them to have strong feelings for whatever they choose.

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: My daughter is 15, and she gets to be involved with me at work. I love for my children to see hard work and the results that come from hard work — to not be afraid of that and not shy away from that. My journey to where I am now in my career has been vast and varied. For my daughter, I want her to have an idea of where she would like to land someday and to enjoy the process of getting there — be it her education or whatever her work experience may be along the way. I’ve been amazed over my years of working with phenomenal women in business — even at times when I was the secretary — to look back at those moments and see what I learned even when I didn’t know I was learning. It’s part of what creates the person you are, and I want her to enjoy that.

Gambill, Remedez: I only have sons, so I know there are other mothers out there grooming women for my sons. I want my sons to choose women who are sensitive, hardworking, charitable and educated. But am I raising my sons to deserve that profile of a woman? I’m working toward trying to teach them the values these women should have. My job is to raise sons who deserve them.

Anderson, Fillmore Spencer: My daughter is in college, and I’ve watched her emulate me from the time she was 3, 4 and 5 by taking notes, typing on the computer or just doing the things I do. She’s always enjoyed coming to work with me and has seen me in the workplace as well as at home. She knows that’s who I am, that’s what I do. As she has gotten into college, I want her to make choices that make her happy and know that the possibilities of what she can accomplish are limitless. Whatever goals she sets, whatever she sets her mind to and wants to achieve, she can. Through hard work and effort there are no limitations. The most important thing is to be happy.

Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: I have three children. My oldest son is 15 and I have two daughters who are 5 and 7. The example of mom for the daughters is pretty clear. I, too, want them to know they can do whatever they want. What I struggle to do the most as a parent is raise my children with hands a little bit out, so I don’t try to tell them what their consciousness should be. If I tried to conform to what my parents wanted me to be, I don’t think I would be what I am today. I want my children to stretch their wings and fly.

Devenish, Checknet: We always play this game where I am like, “What about being a dentist? Who wants to be a dentist?” I have those conversations with my kids because they only see me doing business stuff and expect the same for themselves. So I am always like, “Well, what if you want to be a flight attendant?” I don’t want them to just see what they see in our home, because there are so many great jobs they might not even think of.

Grammer-Williams, American Name Services: But, the entrepreneurialism is still planted in children of entrepreneurs. My daughters are hysterical when it comes to this kind of thing. They do their lemonade stands on the corner, but their most recent entrepreneurial venture — which is different than what I’ve been exposed to — is they’ve started their own little Internet shows — their own “iCarly.” Throughout the neighborhood they put signs up saying the show is going to be at 3, and this is what we are going to do. While they see the different businesses we run, they have integrated business principles in their own way. They have turned it into something they enjoy, which is these little podcasts. And they’re doing it at 5 and 7, so bravo.

Gambill, Remedez HairSpa: In truth, we want our kids to be more than just happy. Many teenagers are happy watching TV in the basement or playing games. But author Carole Wiseman writes that what we really want is for our children to be happy AND productive. That’s probably the goal of any mother — to combine those two.

Devenish, Checknet: We need to bring out the creativity in our children. My 9-year old loves to draw. So I say, “You can be an artist.” And she says, “You don’t do that at your office, do you?” And I say, “No, there aren’t any artists at my work. But there are many opportunities for artists out there.”

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: You need to really focus on what their gift is.

Anderson, Fillmore Spencer: My daughter had a certain major in mind — accounting. But now she’s decided she doesn’t enjoy accounting. She had tunnel vision for her first plan, but now she’s changed to education and is thrilled and happy. Sometimes our children do follow our examples, but it’s important for them to broaden their views and see the bigger picture.

Jarman, Dear Lizzie: Among us, we have different gifts because we are all in different businesses. So our children can see what we are good at. I like that our children can see that our businesses are not just a hobby — they can learn that what you’re good at can be translated into something very legitimate as a business that can support your family.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Thank you for making time in your busy BlackBerries for this conversation! Now it’s back to our other many roles today!

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Jeanette Bennett, BusinessQ: How is the convention and meeting industry doing in Utah County?

Joel Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: We’re not feeling the same level of impact that destinations like Scottsdale, Ariz., and Las Vegas are feeling right now, but we are definitely feeling contraction and pull back from corporate meetings and events. Some companies are on edge about how they are spending that money.

Mark Hiles, Diamond Rental: At Diamond Rental we have seen a contraction of corporate events either through cutting back or downsizing. Some companies who do four or five events a year are now down to one or two.

Fritz Black, Cowboy Leaders: Companies are spending less money on lower levels of leadership and spending more on upper management.

Kendall Wimmer, Thanksgiving Point: Our corporate numbers are holding well, but the companies are spending less on the higher-end audiovisual and tent rentals. They are still having meetings, but they are downscaled.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What would you say to businesses about the importance of events and why they shouldn’t continue to cut back?

Black, Cowboy Leaders: Anytime you send someone to an event or a retreat you are hoping for a change in behavior. Executives need to understand what that change in behavior is and where you can get the most bang for your buck. One of the best ways you can institute a change is to go away from your comfort zone with people you haven’t met before. Different ideas can be exchanged where there isn’t the pressure of the daily grind. It’s really important to get away from the workplace.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: The notion of teleconferencing has its place, but business is really accomplished face-to-face. That is where you can get creative, you can brainstorm, you can look at the body language of individuals and you can feel how your meeting is going. We just hosted an event yesterday at the courthouse. What we accomplished there we could not have accomplished in a conference call. We had to hash it out and have some compromise and negotiation. We had a successful meeting.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Recently the media has painted a negative picture of some big national companies spending a lot of money on lavish events. What do you want people to understand about why meetings and events are a way of doing business?

Wimmer, Thanksgiving Point: There is a difference between a corporate retreat and an AIG corporate retreat. Very productive meetings can happen by getting away from the office. These meetings don’t have the distractions of the phones and copy machines or other employees coming in. There is a tremendous amount of team building and camaraderie that comes out of an event. Getting your mind away from the office and focused in an unfamiliar territory elicits new ideas.

Jack Marvell, Marvellous Catering: For the past 10 or 12 years we have done a party for the same company, and their numbers are down this year from 1,500 attendees to 1,100. But they are still going forward with the party to say “thanks” to their employees, because those employees are still working everyday. Every year, we cook steaks and the corporate executives serve them to their employees. They go around and talk to their people. It’s good stuff.

Black, Cowboy Leaders: There is something about changing attitudes that can’t be done just with policy change or a procedure change. What you really need to change is the attitude of the people, and you can only do that in a face-to-face setting. When you are sitting down, getting to know each other or breaking bread together, that is where you really share. That is when attitudes can change.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What role does food play in a successful event?

Marvell, Marvellous Catering: I have discovered that if you want them to come, feed them. If you want them to come back, feed them well. That is what it boils down to. When you feed them filet mignon for 12 years, they keep coming back — as opposed to other parties where it is a hot dog and a bag of chips. Only half of the company shows up to an event like that.

Black, Cowboy Leaders: If the food is bad, that is what they talk about. You can forget the message about the whole event presentation because they are going to talk about the food.

Marvell, Marvellous Catering: In the final analysis, it all comes down to that. The food is where the rubber meets the road.

Wimmer, Thanksgiving Point: I agree with everything that has been said, and I also think good food is a lot more affordable than people think. We see a lot of people in our deli area crowded around a public table trying to have a business meeting. For a few bucks more on food and a nominal room fee they can have a catered event in a private room with a staff that will care for their every need. Many places in the community are more affordable than people think.

Jared Kearns, McKay Events Center: We have an excellent Culinary Arts program at UVU. I’ve seen corporations come in and have elaborate dinners for all their employees. Then if they scale back the next time, they have less of a turnout. Food really does play a big part in an event.

Marvell, Marvellous Catering: When one company switched from steaks to hamburgers and hotdogs, we didn’t hear the end of the complaining. Everybody was saying, “Where are the steaks?” When I looked at the situation, I really didn’t see a good explanation for their decision because the difference in price between the two options was a buck or two.

Black, Cowboy Leaders: People are trying to walk a fine line between not spending too much and still trying to take care of their people. They don’t want people saying, “If things are so tight, why are you spending so much money on an extra?”

Marvell, Marvellous Catering: As things get tighter, people have the mentality of pulling in. But you have to be careful because people who are working for you need to know you care about them.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Let’s switch gears and talk about planning. What is the ideal time frame for someone to come to you and start planning an event?

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: I’m a member of the Western Association of Convention & Visitors Bureaus, and every year we go to a CEO forum. Three years ago I thought, “Why don’t we host this event in Utah?” I wanted to see the economic impact come to my community. I also worked with the Salt Lake Convention and Visitors Bureau and the Park City bureau, and we put together a bid. We had to get organized early on in the bidding and planning process.

Sharon Curley, Diamond Rental: We usually work a year out to plan an event, which gives us time to talk to the show managers and the vendors to make sure that everything is in line. Within that year of planning, I keep an open mind in case something comes up. I like to talk to the convention center early on and follow up with them. With a large expo event, we focus our attention on the exhibitors. If they aren’t happy, it isn’t a successful show.

Wimmer, Thanksgiving Point: At a year out, we would love to know they are coming. As we get closer, we secure bigger details. Often the menu falls into place as the last thing.

Kearns, McKay Events Center: I wish I had a year out! We have a lot of people show up two weeks or a month out wanting to pull off a dinner for a thousand people. Our clients are often first-time, local people.

Black, Cowboy Leaders: You need to understand the size and scope of your project. For small groups you can plan things on a very quick basis. And here in Utah County you can put things together in very short time span. Look at the people around this table — I don’t think there is one of us who would say no to business next week.

Marvell, Marvellous Catering: How about tomorrow? I’ll tell my wife to load the wagon, and we’ll take care of it.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: We’re seeing that the booking window is much more narrow than it used to be. Groups aren’t always planning a year in advance.

Hiles, Diamond Rental: That is a good point. We do see the time frame contracting a little bit with the economy. We really bend over backwards for a lot for these people to make sure we can accommodate their needs and get it done last minute. Utah County is great for that.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What are some of the big mistakes people make in planning an event?

Wimmer, Thanksgiving Point: Too often, people neglect to utilize the expertise of professionals. All of the people at this table have done this a lot. We have seen hundreds of events, and I’m surprised how often people don’t take advantage and ask us questions. We have professional meeting planners who often don’t get to use their skills because someone else is forcing an idea that may or may not work. We can take care of the little details, and we are there to make you look good. If you communicate to us about what you need, we can help. People often make the most mistakes when it comes to planning their audiovisual needs.

Kearns, McKay Events Center: The biggest thing I see is that people assume we have everything at our facility. People show up with their computers and don’t know how to run them.

Hiles, Diamond Rental: As a rental business, we see people try to cut expenses by doing it themselves. They don’t realize what goes into planning an event. We try to accommodate them as much as possible, but we do get a lot of last minutes calls about audiovisual or sound needs and lots of little overlooked details.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: I went to a tech summit in Northern California, and we had Internet connectivity problems. There were all these wired techno-geeks with laptops and Apple products, but they couldn’t get connected. We were close enough to Cupertino that it should have worked. It was a wonderful event, but the tech problems are what people were talking about. Think about the type of group you have and be proactive about the things that absolutely have to work.

Curley, Diamond Rental: As part of the planning, we need to ask the client the important questions. We ask them if they have thought about this or overlooked that. We can find out how to make things work.

Bennett, BusinessQ: After all the planning has been done and the event is actually happening, what can companies do to ensure the meeting goes smoothly?

Black, Cowboy Leaders: Watch the behavior of the people. Make sure you are getting the behavior you want to get. Get comments from people at the event and make changes on the fly.

Wimmer, Thanksgiving Point: What you don’t want to do is start a meeting with chaos. For a lot of people the first hour is spent running back and forth getting the last minute things taken care of. The key to an event going well is in the pre-planning stages. With proper planning and using your meeting planner, you can walk into a room that is already set up and be shaking hands at the door instead of running up and down the hall.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: When an event begins, you have to be in execution mode.

Marvell, Marvellous Catering: It’s showtime!

Bennett, BusinessQ: Are there any misunderstandings about the options in Utah Valley? Do you see businesses going to Salt Lake for meetings when they don’t necessarily need to?

Black, Cowboy Leaders: Absolutely. I think people look outside of Utah County first. We’ve got some great businesses here, but they look to Denver or Las Vegas or Salt Lake City. They figure they have to leave the county to get what they want, but they don’t pay attention to what is right here under their nose. If you want to cut money out of your event, cut your airline ticket. If you cut that you can spend more time and more money at your venue.

Wimmer, Thanksgiving Point: The accessibility of areas in Utah County are much better than in Salt Lake or other outlying areas. The ease of parking and access from I-15 makes a big difference.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: We in Utah County can do much more than people give us credit for, but we do have limitations. We have limitations of the size of groups and meeting space. Many network marketing companies hold their events in Salt Lake where they can handle 7,000 or 8,000. In Utah County, we only have about 3,000 hotel rooms.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What about tourism in Utah County? How do we entice people from out of state to come here to host events?

Black, Cowboy Leaders: The majority of our business is out of state. We host small groups that come to our outdoor setting where all of our meeting facilities are open air with all the modern conveniences you would expect to have. People come and spend time in the mountains — just a half hour out of Provo — and then they say they want to bring their families back. It boosts tourism.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: Meeting attendees are definitely future tourists. I can’t tell you how many individuals who attended my conference a week or two ago had never been up here, and they are already planning a trip to bring their families back. We’re talking about Utah Valley, which is great, but high tide raises all boats. When outdoor retailers comes to the Salt Palace, the attendees will cross lines and come down to Thanksgiving Point, or come down to the Provo River to fly fish.

Wimmer, Thanksgiving Point: We’re seeing a lot of businesses bringing families with them to conventions. We’re seeing corporations taking it into consideration — What is there for my family to do? Mom or dad are going to the meetings, so the kids are finding avenues to explore.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: It’s become a trend to tack on a vacation at the end of a business trip. It’s also a trend for people to stay closer to home — the “staycation.” Our state park numbers are up this year because Utahns are visiting. Timp Cave, Camp Floyd State Park and Utah Lake State Park are spiking in the number of attendees during the summer travel season. People are bringing their families and tacking on one or two extra days. Some people may not think of Utah County as a true tourism destination. Our goal is to help people understand what additional things they can do here. Whether they have come here for a purpose or a specific vacation at Sundance, for fly-fishing on the Provo River or golf at one of our 11 incredible golf courses, we have a lot of things to do.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What are some of the trends in conventions and meetings? What things are big right now in food and decor?

Curley, Diamond Rental: Utah County is very conservative. We have seen a lot of weddings scaled down. But a lot of them like to use lighted canopies. Décor-wise, they use lighting to give more flow. As far as conventions, we use the standard tables and chairs. A lot of times the exhibitors want to upgrade to different linens to add to their booth packages.

Marvell, Marvellous Catering: It’s been interesting to me to watch the trends in food over the past 20 years. I would attribute most of it to the Food Network because people are now aware of food. About 12 or 15 years ago, there was a little barbecue place down by Albertsons, and it didn’t make it. Now we have seven or eight of them in the valley. People want to taste what they see on TV — chipotle this, Asian that. The Food Network has changed things dramatically. We still serve a lot of the traditional kinds of things, but all the time we see requests for things they’ve seen on TV. In Utah Valley, we’ve become very international as it relates to food.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: We’ve got some good ethnic restaurants here, so I would agree with that.

Kearns, McKay Events Center: The trend we’re seeing is toward athletics. We had the Utah Thunder start up, and we have the Utah Flash. Throwdown does a few events, also. And, of course, we have UVU athletics. The trend I see is more and more people coming out to support these athletic events at the McKay.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: I admire your programming ability. You’ve got to be on top of things to pull off everything that happens in your facility.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Let’s look forward. What are some of your predictions for trends in your industry for the upcoming years?

Black, Cowboy Leaders: I predict people are going to start making decisions to do things they have been putting off. Rather than saving money, they are going to say, “No, we’ve got the money so let’s go ahead and do an event.” People are going to start breaking loose with dollars for conventions and training. They are going to look for more value for their dollar — whether it’s the quality of the food, the quality of the facility or the quality of the training. I strongly recommend to anyone who is going to hold any type of event that you look at the quality of the change you hope to make. Decide what outcome you want, and go to a place that will give you that outcome in buckets. If it’s food and pleasure, certainly go to someone who is going to give you the kind the food you’re looking for. If it’s training, then look for a company that can train. Whether it is sales training, leadership training or relationship training, find those things that are going to have a profitable outcome. People are going to be looking for that.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: Our infrastructure is going to change dramatically in Utah Valley. The venues we have are going to improve and increase. There have been groups who would love to come here but haven’t because we can’t meet their needs. Once the economy turns and the airlines are looking toward small carriers, we’re going to see scheduled service at the Provo Airport within three to five years. When we have a carrier that connects to Las Vegas or Denver, we’re basically connected to the rest of the world. Some facilities have been announced and we have seen efforts toward developing them such as the Frank Gehry Project in Lehi and the John Q. Hammons project in Pleasant Grove. Utah County has talked for a number of years about developing a smaller convention center in downtown Provo. I got three phone calls yesterday that said they are moving forward. It’s very exciting because if we wait before the economy rebounds to start this facility, we’ll continue to miss opportunities. This facility could be built in the next two years. We’re going to start getting a better piece of the pie. Hopefully, the regional corporate meetings, events, monthly training meetings and fly-in weekends that are currently being held elsewhere, will be held here. So we’re going to see incredible growth and much improved infrastructure.

Wimmer, Thanksgiving Point: We anticipate continued growth at Thanksgiving Point. This year, our food service numbers have been down, but our venue numbers have been higher than last year. It’s been good to see the locals come out and take advantage of local opportunities. As we start to get back to business, there will be a return to old business practices. People are understanding — particularly on the wedding side of the business — it’s not a whole lot cheaper to try to pull something off by yourself than to use one of these venues. The cost of a tray of fruit might be more than you would pay at Albertsons, but after you factor in tables, chairs, linens, glassware and canopies, you get a-la-carted to death. You end up spending a lot of money, not to mention the headache involved and not really enjoying the day you’re supposed to be enjoying. We continue to see talk about the quality of life here in Utah County. I think that will continue to attract businesses, and businesses will continue to build in this county. Transportation is huge. When UTA’s Front Runner goes in, that will be huge. I think it’s a very bright future for Utah County.

Kearns, McKay Events Center: I’m more in the entertainment industry. There continues to be more entertainment and better quality. I think of the Orem Owlz and the Utah Flash. Businesses come for parties and entertainment. Businesses are using these different venues and avenues to bring clients in. Utah County is developing these areas, which they haven’t in the past.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: The days of nothing to do are long gone.

Kearns, McKay Events Center: Right! There is always something to do here.

Curley, Diamond Rental: As Utah County continues to grow, there will be more tradeshows and conventions coming to Utah County.

Marvell, Marvellous Catering: I don’t even suppose to know what’s going to happen in the industry. I just know that we have recently moved into a new facility and we’re keeping ourselves in as good of a financial condition as we can. We’re going to ride this thing out, and we’re going to figure out how to sell some food. When the economy comes back, we’re going to be ready.

Hiles, Diamond Rental: I’m excited about the new facilities that will come in and bring more business. As Fritz was saying, people look for a bang for their buck. In Utah County, we don’t have a Salt Palace or a South Towne Expo Center. But I think UVU offers a great venue for the expos, especially for the smaller ones because you get a better bang for your buck there. I’m excited Utah County does have enough to offer. We just need to continue to get the word out about what is available here.

Racker, Utah Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau: If we can get folks in Utah Valley to be thinking about how they can become an ambassador and bring events here, there are organizations to help them. And the Convention and Visitors Bureau is one of them.

Bennett, BusinessQ: That’s a positive way to end. I’m excited about the future just as all of you are. Thank you for your time today.

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s economic environment is compounding the opportunities for entrepreneurs.

Jeanette Bennett, BusinessQ: How would you describe the current banking environment in Utah Valley?

Richard Beard, Bank of American Fork: It’s not a secret we’

ve had a real change in the economic climate in the United States and Utah. The banking industry is not immune from that. It has been a time of change and getting back to the fundamentals.

Edward Sanches, Western Community Bank: The challenges we are facing are unprecedented. But this has brought out more commitment from bankers. There is the old joke about “bankers’ hours,” but lights are on late in managers’ offices. This is directly related to the commitment bankers now have, not only to their clients but also to the community they are serving. Bankers are pulling together.
Thomas Morgan, Zions Bank: Today’s challenges are affording us a tremendous learning opportunity. For our industry to be vibrant, we have to be good at what we do, and if we get complacent because times are really good and things go smoothly all the time, we get into a rut. Unless our protocols, our theories, our processes are tested, then we don’

t know whether we are good or not. It gives us an opportunity to test our resolve, to test our ideas and to test our credit scoring methodology. This truly is the real stress test for all of us. The next generation of banking will be an improvement on the last one if we learn from where we are at.

Leonel Castillo, AmBank: In general, banks in Utah are in pretty good shape, particularly in Utah County where we are well-capitalized and well-run. Our area banks have done a lot to help businesses stay in place. However, there has been much discussion about there being no money available and about banks being self-interested corporations with total lack of empathy for the customers they serve. In Utah County, that is simply not accurate.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What do you want people to understand about the banking industry?

Castillo, AmBank: We are part of the community whether we are a small institution or a regional bank. If you, as a consumer, have an issue, give us a call, come in, and let’

s see if there is a way we can find common ground.

Don Norton, Far West Bank: The banking industry has really made Utah an effective leader in the development of small businesses. From the small bank to the regional bank, we are all committed to the customer and to helping create an environment that encourages new business.

Mark Drake, Family First Federal Credit Union: Even though the economy has slowed down, Utah County is still doing well. We still have people applying for money, and we are still granting the credit.

Bennett, BusinessQ: The perception exists that it is difficult to borrow money right now. Is that true?

Beard, Bank of American Fork: We have gone back to being very careful about credit, and that by its nature tends to tighten things up. At least speaking for our bank, we are still very much open for business. We are making loans to credit-worthy customers. Small business lending is still an active area. As this economy pulls out of this lull, we will see more lending to small businesses.

Morgan, Zions Bank: The perception of a cutback in lending largely comes from a national perspective where there were untraditional lenders in the credit arena. The subprime and untraditional lenders created an unsustainable growth. When they fell apart, everyone began thinking that nobody is making loans and that they can’

t get the money like they used to. But in reality, we have simply come back to prudent, smart, conservative lending practices that have been the foundation of all these lending institutions here today.

Drake, Family First Federal Credit Union: I’m sure everyone in this room has been asked by someone, “Are you still lending money. Did you quit?” The basic principle that people need to understand is that banks are in the business of loaning money. If we don’

t loan money, we are out of business.

Castillo, AmBank: The lending industry got carried away with too many exotic financial instruments. What’

s happened over the past six to nine months is a reset in going back to those standards of loaning to people who have good credit, a down payment, and are able to show how they can make the payment. The second part of the change is that with the downturn in the economy there has been a reset in the values of real estate. Over the past five years land became so expensive that few people could afford it. This reset is painful, but it will ultimately be a good thing for everyone.

Beard, Bank of American Fork: Capitalism is an efficient system if you’ll let it work, and it has to be able to punish those who get too far out of line. There were a lot of financial institutions that got out of the proper parameters, and they paid the price. Capitalism does that —

it cleanses itself.

Norton, Far West Bank: Unfortunately, the whole industry has been painted with the same brush based upon the effects of Wall Street and these funky mortgage instruments that were established. There was an attitude of, “You’ve got to lower the standards so that every American can be a homeowner.” In Utah, foreigners and strangers came in to lend money, and their standards weren’t like ours. But we didn’t lower our credit standards. Now, customers are saying, “Wow, that loan was a good deal while I had it, but now I’ve got all this property and nothing is selling.” It’s been very dramatic to see what I would refer to as foreigners that didn’

t have the basic principles of the banking industry.

Morgan, Zions Bank: For all of us, it’

s back to the basics. Discipline is a good thing. It may seem restrictive, but in the end discipline will be the thing that has saved our ability to give credit to the people who are qualified.

Sanches, Western Community Bank: No bank right now or finance institution wants to bring on new loans that are going to be trouble for them. No bank really ever has. What caused the recession wasn’

t commercial banks like ours. In reality, it was the mortgage and investment industry that said everyone deserves a home, no money down. Consumers got in their mind that all banks should offer that. Some banks did get sucked into that and now they are feeling the ramifications. For the majority of Utah Valley banks, it is business as usual for qualified borrowers.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Where will we go from here? What do you see happening in the next year within the banking industry?
Beard, Bank of American Fork: You’re going to see slower growth in banks as they cleanse themselves. I’m not one that believes the economy is headed into depression. We always come out of these cycles, and I don’t see any reason to believe any different this time. As we come out, business will continue to operate, the housing industry will continue to see movement in the lower-priced homes, and the ones that were overpriced will come back into line. People that built those will be hurt —

banks and builders. But capitalism will do its thing and the market will get back into balance.

Castillo, AmBank: Regardless of what you think of the government’s efforts to stimulate the economy, there are some real opportunities for a cross-section of individuals. The combination of federal and state initiatives to help first-time homebuyers is a real opportunity for those who have been priced out of the market. Those programs together with some of those falling prices will create an excellent opportunity for investors. For small businesses, the government has increased the size of the SBA guarantee and they’

ve also eliminated some borrowing fees. So in the next year, while we still have a lot of issues to sort through, there will be a tremendous amount of opportunity for everyone.

Morgan, Zions Bank: We take our place in the community as leaders. We lead by example. We do the right thing internally first as individuals in our own families, and then in our institutions. We do the prudent thing. Every one of us are relationship bankers. The fundamental ingredients are the relationships that we build. When we build those, we take a leadership role in not encouraging our customers to get overextended. We don’t encourage our customers to live beyond their means. We don’

t encourage our customers to use substandard assets in order to get ahead. We lead by encouraging our client to do the right thing, and as partners we together improve this economy.

Norton, Far West Bank: We’

ve seen historic highs for the past three months in the volume of refinances. The incentives will begin to take care of the excess new home inventory that has been built up through speculation.

Drake, Family First Federal Credit Union: Everyone wants to focus on the good news. But there are legitimate times when things are problematic. If things are downturning for you in your personal life or business finances, go in and talk to your banker before you get delinquent. It’

s a lot easier at that point for the banker to work with you.

Sanches, Western Community Bank: It’s not even that we need good news, we just need the absence of bad news. There’s been so much negative media focusing on all the troubles that it has caused people to completely restrict. Jobs are going to be the driving force. Historically, Utah unemployment has been lower than the nation. Utah’s unemployment is 5.2 compared to 8.5 nationally. Even though we are going through difficult times, it’

s not as deep as what is perceived out there.

Bennett, BusinessQ: You all have a good pulse on the community and the economy from your perspective as community bankers. What are some examples of good news in our community?

Beard, Bank of American Fork: Take an area like Saratoga Springs. Right now there are tons of homes for sale and it looks bleak. But by 2040, Saratoga Springs will be home to about 240,000 people. All of those people will have to live somewhere. All of those people have to have a job. All of those people go to restaurants and buy things. We have a good population growth in our area. Utah tends to historically be late going into recession and it doesn’t go as deep as the country’

s recession.

Morgan, Zions Bank: In a downturn, there are qualified borrowers who stay away from looking for an opportunity to borrow until they see what is happening. What we have seen just recently at Zions is the re-emergence of qualified borrowers. That is good news. Qualified borrowers are coming back.

Castillo, AmBank: I believe the people in the valley are good news. While we were all shell shocked last year, we have a bright population and we have a motivated population. I think we are going to see new businesses come up. We are going to see people who are adjusting to difficult circumstances. They are going to make lemonade out of lemons. They are looking for the silver lining in the storm cloud. I think the quality of the people in the valley and the opportunities that are here are good news.

Sanches, Western Community Bank: The good news in the banking industry is that short and long-term rates are at all-time lows. For those who are qualified, short term rates are very low. Mortgage rates are very low. Compare that to what we went through in the 1980s … granted I was in elementary school …
Norton, Far West Bank: I’ll tell you about the ’

80s. (laughter)

Beard, Bank of American Fork: Look at what has happened in the housing industry. Two years ago, there were all sorts of houses for $800,000 and $900,000. Now the billboards are advertising homes for $180,000 and 200,000. We are adaptable. Builders are getting efficient enough that they can build a $200,000 home and people in the valley can afford a $200,000 home. That entrepreneurial spirit is adaptable.

Bennett, BusinessQ: How should a business pick a banking institution? What should go into that decision?

Norton, Far West Bank: Initially you have to understand that each bank has a strategy. We all provide the same kind of a product: checking, savings, money markets, merchant cards and credit cards. But we each have a strategy as far as what our portfolio looks at. We are very entrepreneurial, and we enjoy working with entrepreneurs who have great ideas. Sometimes they forget about the importance of the financing and accounting. They need to mesh their ideas with people who have finance backgrounds. You bring the idea and let’s see how we can help you develop that. We see great ideas coming short of capital and they just need us to lend them the capital. When an idea for a business is a good one and we know it will work, it’

s a no-brainer for us. The banking industry is here to help.

Castillo, AmBank: If I was out looking for a financial institution I would do research regarding that institution and what sorts of credit they offer. All of us have certain types of products that we like better than others. As a startup business I would find an institution that has a history of funding startups. Since having working capital is the lifeblood of business, I would develop more than one relationship. In the event the primary financial institution has determined they can’t help you, it’

s good that you have established some other relationship. The other thing I would be prepared to do is move all your primary deposit accounts and personal account so you have a whole relationship with that financial institution. That gives all of us a greater comfort to see how John Doe manages not only their personal account but their business account.

Sanches, Western Community Bank: If I were an entrepreneur going out to find a bank, I would research. When you buy a camera you do homework, and it’

s no different looking for a bank. You want to find someone who is going to be able to relate to you.

Beard, Band of American Fork: Money is all the same in a sense, but at the end of the day the best thing bankers can do is help small businesses understand what financing is. A lot of people understand how to make a widget, but they don’t understand that the cost of the money to make the widget is an important piece. So if you have a brand new startup and they come to a bank and they want venture capital, they are shopping in the wrong place. A banker does a great service to sit down and explain that there are different pots of money. A venture capital pot of money is a different kind. It has a different return. It has a different risk profile. If they try to shop that kind of a deal at a bank they are going to get really frustrated and go back to the idea that there is no lending being done. The person needs to understand — and the banker needs to explain —

what types of financing banks can offer. The days of drive-by lending are over.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What are some bank services that people aren’t utilizing or don’

t understand?

Beard, Bank of American Fork: Consulting is one of them. Obviously banks give money in a loan, but too many people, and particularly businessmen, think, “That’s all I need is the money.” But relationships are important. Relationships are rewarded. In our bank, for example, we have a product called “My rewards,” and it gives a high rate of interest if you’ll bring your whole relationship to the bank. We can afford to do that if people will be totally at the bank. It’

s like frequent fliers in the airlines. You can give people a higher yield on checking accounts and maybe lower rates in terms of borrowing, but there has to be some commitment to a relationship.

Sanches, Western Community Bank: Internet banking has come a long way, and there are a lot of tools that may not be fully utilized by small businesses. For example, small businesses can pay employees through direct deposit. It makes it much more convenient.

Morgan, Zions Bank: I do think the industry has some tremendously robust treasury management products these days that are very helpful for small-, medium- and large-sized businesses. Not everybody understands our industry. Find a trusted adviser who can communicate with you, and it helps you understand what a partnership with a bank can be. Find an institution where you say, “This is the place for me.” Then the next step is to find someone within that institution who you can connect to. At the end of the day it’s all about that interpersonal communication. In addition, if you get in trouble or if you think you might be in trouble financially, it’

s important to go to the bank and talk to them. Work it out in the beginning before it becomes a major issue.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What is happening in the world of small business loans?

Castillo, AmBank: SBA lending allows us to make loans on terms you wouldn’

t normally find. For example, it allows for a longer amortization period. That helps the business with cash flow. On the real estate side, the SBA 504 program fees have been eliminated. Now is a good time for businesses to explore the purchase of their own facility. The 504 program provides an excellent combination of rate, cost and terms that are extremely beneficial to a borrower.

Norton, Far West Bank: The perception for a long period of time was that government lending products have horrendous paperwork. People wondered how they were going to muddle through it without a finance degree. But that perception needs to go away. Government loans are much more streamlined now.

Bennett, BusinessQ: As we close our roundtable, what are your final thoughts you’d like to share with Utah Valley’

s business community?

Drake, Family First Federal Credit Union: One of the key things we talked about today is banker relationship loyalty. As you pick a bank or a credit union, you need to find someone you can relate with and who understands your needs. Banks and credit unions are in the business to loan money. For someone to say there’s no lending out there would be to say McDonalds doesn’

t sell hamburgers anymore. Banks and credit unions are there to lend money. We want to be your financial partner.

Sanches, Western Community Bank: Banks in Utah County are, for the most part, strong, well-capitalized and actively looking for clients. It really is refreshing. Now we’

re seeing the resurgence of qualified borrowers coming into the institution. There are less people coming in to borrow money, but those who are coming in have the capability to repay what they are asking for. In general, I want to reiterate that Utah Valley banks are strong, secure and well-capitalized. We are in business to lend money.

Castillo, AmBank: Difficult times, whether professionally or personally, help us all become better people at whatever it is that we do. Periodically we have to go through these periods to sharpen our skills. Together with that difficult time are some wonderful opportunities.

Morgan, Zions Bank: I add my statement of confidence related to the institutions in Utah County. We are partners ready and willing to help small businesses and large businesses alike. I personally believe, not on behalf of Zions Bank, that we have been forced into a correction that was a necessary correction. Values on properties have come down because they were unsustainable values based on easy money. If we as individuals and families will learn from what has gone on and do not overextend ourselves — if we live within our means — we can learn from the challenges that we’

ve seen. How do we improve the economy? It starts with me and my family and you and your family. In our homes, we do the right thing in our little economy and that improves the larger economy.

Beard, Bank of American Fork: There is sometimes a misperception, even in Utah, of what a bank is. When you look at what happened with Lehman Brothers that filled the news last year, those are investment banks, not commercial banks. A lot of the correction has occurred on the investment banking side. Here in Utah I don’t know that what played out on the national news really affected or changed what we do. Individual banks are looking at ways to operate prudently. I’

m cautiously optimistic.

Norton, Far West Bank: The people and the American spirit are going to confront challenges and do what’s right and make it better. We have to understand it isn’t all doom and gloom. Because of Utah values, we’

re going to bounce back much quicker than investors nationwide. Their eyes are on Utah. We are slower going down and we come back quicker than anywhere else out there in the country.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Thank you for your banking insights.

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Hold onto your logo, ladies and gentlemen, you’re about to go on a roller coaster of branding, market share and “Google love.” These seven experts know 2009 is the year to go to market. Their agencies are helping clients leave competition behind in their marketing dust. Take that, recession!

Jeanette Bennett, BusinessQ: Why is advertising more important than ever given the current economic conditions?

Bill Brady, M2 Results: A lot of companies in history have taken recessions as an opportunity to pick up market share. For our clients, we’re encouraging them to go after it. We’ve got to get past the doom and gloom.

Judy Copier, Kim Brown & Associates: When you go back and look at every recession dating back to the Great Depression, studies have shown advertisers who have either maintained their advertising or have increased their advertising through recessions have benefited. They’ve grown their market share even though they may not maintain their profit levels. After the recession is when they see the biggest gain.

Brady, M2 Results: During a recession, the marketing landscape becomes a lot quieter. Not only is a brand more easily heard, it can steal attention and business away from weak competitors and gather momentum for brighter times around the corner. History shows that market share gained during a recession is typically never lost, and that market share lost during a recession is rarely made up.

Wes Chapman, LIME: Now is an opportunity, not necessarily a downfall. It’s a time where you can step up. The natural cycle of life is going to weed out those that are weak — and those that are strong will survive and stay in business.

Stephen Hales, Stephen Hales Creative: It’s certainly the cheapest time to build market share because the media is giving great bargains and service.

Lance Black, Eli Kirk: It’s easy for us as agencies to say that you need to spend more money, but the reality is people are scared. The natural tendency for people is to hunker down until the recession is over. History is full of successful companies that have spent money during this time, but it takes a bold personality to take that risk. A great example is Fortune magazine. They launched four months after the stock market crash of 1929. They saw an opportunity and took it. The irony is that the Great Depression caused people to think more about markets and financial systems, so it was a perfect time to launch a financial magazine.

Chapman, LIME: It comes down to education, too. Fear is leading people to hunker down, but the fact is they aren’t educated about these companies that basically took over the market during recessions.

Copier, Kim Brown & Associates: Along with that goes responsible spending. They have to pay the bills, but their profit levels are going down. It’s responsible spending and a deep analysis of everything they’re doing that helps them.

Black, Eli Kirk: A recent case study that took place in the mini-recession of 2001-2003 is Apple. They spent more money on marketing during that time and look at them now.

Bryan Ferre, Cultivate Ideas: It’s incumbent upon us to point out to our clients that the great times they can remember are a result of a past recovery. Recoveries are opportunities for growth. But when we get into the good times we sometimes forget about the bad times and don’t realize the connection there. Every bad time leads to a recovery. It’s our responsibility to show our clients where we are at in the cycle and how we get out. Every business today should be helping their customers save money and time and helping make the fear go away. We can all get creative in the actual messaging, but it needs to inspire hope and confidence.

Hales, Stephen Hales Creative: A lot of businesses are just five years old and have never been through a recession like this. It’s important to help them remember that this is a cycle we go through. It’s going to happen again in the future. The best thing to do is capitalize on the opportunities.

Chapman, LIME: This is a cycle of life; this is a cycle of business. It becomes a matter of not waiting and instead taking the bull by the horns and running with it.

Ferre, Cultivate Ideas: We need to be creative in not only the way we talk about a product or service but in the way we deliver or price the product. I hate to use clichés, but in the movie “Mr. Mom,” the Schooner Tuna ad was great. I’m not saying we need to go to that extreme, but it is a great example of doing something different and being successful with it. We have to dig inside and reinvent the product or service with an argument of safety and affordability.

Brandon Scott, MIM Creative: Most of our clients are looking for how they can stand out. It’s not necessarily about being better; it’s about being different.

Bennett, BusinessQ: And being different is part of branding your company. How important is branding — especially in 2009?

Scott, MIM Creative: This is a critical time for branding. From the time someone wakes up to the time they go to bed they’ve been hit with more than 400 messages. How are you standing out from the crowd? Most of my conversations with clients are about consistency. The less consistent they are, the less effective they are with their marketing dollar.

Hales, Stephen Hales Creative: One of the problems people experience when they’re going through a down economy is they want to turn to price-based marketing completely instead of branding. The long-term problem with that is consumers become used to buying cars with a $15,000 discount, for example. You really disaffect a lot of your customers this way. Branding is the best thing to do in a down economy. This creates a loyal customer base.

Ferre, Cultivate Ideas: Building a brand is about building a relationship.

Brady, M2 Results: And when we’re talking about a brand, its essential that we’re not just talking about creative. The quality of the product is very much the driver behind the brand. We can’t forget that. There is a perception that your brand is nothing more than your logo and image. It’s much deeper than that. Creating a brand is about creating a customer experience, including everything from the quality of the product or service to the customer’s interaction with the outward symbols of the brand. A good brand inspires confidence, and that confidence inspires market interest and then reinforces buying decisions. People want to be associated with products and services that they feel good about buying, even during a market recession.

Bennett, Business Q: How does a business know if its marketing is working?

Scott, MIM Creative: Look at natural laws. You never see a guy fishing all day in the same spot who hasn’t caught a single fish. That’s how marketing is. You have to measure and see if something is working, and if it’s not working, you have to change things.

Brady, M2 Results: Model everything. Measure everything. Scrutinize every dollar spent. Establish up front what you expect from your marketing efforts. If you’ve hired an agency and they make you look pretty but don’t drive measurable numbers — especially in gross profit — fire them.

Black, Eli Kirk: We can’t be afraid to retool and change. Take the measurements and reexamine and then change based off of educated numbers.

Copier, Kim Brown & Associates: As an agency, we have to have a strong enough relationship with the client that we all walk into a campaign intelligently, knowing we are going to have to maneuver and change as we go through the process.

Chapman, LIME: We live in a day and age where everything is now, now, now. But marketing is an investment. You may not see results immediately.

Hales, Stephen Hales Creative: Don’t abandon a campaign two days into it.

Scott, MIM Creative: You have to be able to look at the big picture.

Copier, Kim Brown & Associates: You need to set expectations up front with your client. You need a timeline stating when you are going to evaluate, but certainly you’re not going to do this after only a few days.

Hales, Stephen Hales Creative: Most business people are “business people.” They want to see hard numbers and know that their marketing is paying off for them. But it’s half art, half science.

Ferre, Cultivate Ideas: It’s incumbent upon us to teach our clients how to measure.

Black, Eli Kirk: If we’re doing our jobs as agencies, we not only tell them we need to measure it, but we ask them what their definition of success is. We may assume that success equals customers — which would make sense in most cases — but maybe it’s not. Define what is successful and then create a campaign around that so that you can measure success.

Copier, Kim Brown & Associates: That is really key. Sometimes there are advertisers who have no clue how to establish a measurement of success and sometimes they are very unrealistic. You have to manage the expectation to make sure it is a feasible goal and that the plan in place is going to achieve the goal they want.

Hales, Stephen Hales Creative: That is one of the problems with some client expectations. They’ll come to us and say, “I want to do a billboard. Now tell me how I can measure it.” Their question should be, “I have X objective, now give me a campaign that reaches that objective.”

Bennett, BusinessQ: What is the advantage of hiring an outside marketing agency such as the seven of you around this table?

Brady, M2 Results: Consider how much it costs to hire a seasoned marketing professional in-house — $75,000 to $100,000 per year? On top of that, add employment taxes, benefits, vacation time, furniture, hardware, software and unproductive time while the person talks to his or her spouse on the phone and plays around on Facebook. Despite that significant investment, the new hire will typically bear true expertise in just one or two facets of marketing. On the other hand, by investing that kind of money in an agency relationship, you end up with an account team that brings broad strengths and varied experience. Instead of hiring one limited person, you end up with a diversity of creativity, intellect and talent delivered by a team of strategists and creatives.

Black, Eli Kirk: What you gain by going to an agency is expertise, a paradigm shift and out-of-the-box thinking. A lot of the time in-house they just can’t get past that this is the way something ought to be or this is the way something ought to look. Having that paradigm shift can add a lot of value.

Brady, M2 Results: The person you bring in-house might simply adopt the opinion of the CEO and then they’re no further ahead because there is no diversity of opinion.

Ferre, Cultivate Ideas: Whenever my clients ask me whether they should hire someone in-house, I always tell them it depends on whether they want to be doing the strategy and design or if they want someone else to do it. What typically happens in-house is the boss dictates strategy and design. If they’re qualified that’s great, but if not then let someone with experience help you.
Copier, Kim Brown & Associate: You end up hiring a jack-of-all-trades, an expert of none. Where as when you go with an agency you have an expert in each individualized section. You can’t get that with one person.

Hales, Stephen Hales Creative: The best way to do an in-house group is not to have the production people in-house, but to have a really smart coordinator who knows what the company needs and can help identify good strategy when he or she sees it. Those are the very best relationships and that’s why all the largest companies in the world outsource their marketing. They have good people in-house who work with outside people to bring that expertise to the company.

Black, Eli Kirk: If you ask any small business — somewhat tongue-in-cheek — if they have an in-house lawyer or accountant, they’ll laugh at you. They will tell you that is a specialized service. So with something that actually makes you money, such as marketing, why would you not do the same thing? Hire the expertise of an outside agency that brings to the table all the experience of previous clients — successes and failures — instead of relying on one or two individuals who don’t have all of that industry experience.

Bennett, BusinessQ: A big piece of the marketing puzzle is technology-based. How do businesses drive customers and future customers to their Web sites?
Chapman, LIME: You need print advertising to get people to your Web site. And then you can use the Web to communicate a message very effectively. I think businesses have this allusion that once they get their site going they are going to sit back and watch the bank meter go up. That’s really not the case. There are very few businesses that are going to have true success selling on the Internet only. But the Web site can inform and educate.

Scott, MIM Creative: Obviously Web sites are essential, but you can’t market with just one medium. When you eat dinner you’ve got your vegetable, fruit, meat, bread, etc. — it’s the same thing with marketing. You need a little bit of everything. That’s what makes a great meal. It’s the whole stirring together that makes a great “marketing” meal.

Hales, Stephen Hales Creative.: Technology is just one element of marketing. You need to find out what you want to talk to people about and where those people are. If it’s technology, that’s where you need to go, in addition to every other place they are. Be careful not to jump on something because it’s the latest or coolest.

Copier, Kim Brown & Associates: On a real basic level, 10 years ago we started telling our clients they’ve got to have a Web site. So they got one and it just sat there because they didn’t know what to do with it. We know that consumers do go to the Web to research before they walk in to any business. It used to be you would go to seven to 10 different dealerships before you would buy a car. Now it’s maybe two because you’ve done all that research ahead of time. Whether you are selling from a Web site or if it’s just an information gathering tool, it’s important. But you have to use external mediums to bring people to your site.

Black, Eli Kirk: I’m going to make a bold statement and say that in today’s market, the Web is the most important thing you could spend money on. People are using the Web to judge credibility. There has to be a hierarchy to your Web site. You give them a little bit on the homepage and then the more interested consumer can go and dig in a little further. It’s very important to have an SEO (search engine optimization) strategy. Search engines love content. Blogs are a great example. They get a lot of “Google love.” The reason for that is because they are new and fresh and Google loves that. Write content, be active in the community, be an expert on a topic, comment on other people’s blogs and link them back to your Web site. It’s an active process, but that’s how you drive people to your site.

Scott, MIM Creative: We like to tell people that a Web site is like yesterday’s business card. You can be a small little company, but just by having a professional look and providing information, it saves you time.

Brady, M2 Results: Choices of which mediums to use should be evaluated based on clear, predefined goals. The question to ask is, “What tactics will reach the greatest number of the target audience for the lowest cost per contact, cost per lead and cost per sale?” With our clients, we typically spreadsheet out the options to look at hard numbers and take the emotion out. Looking at hard costs and likely yields of each option makes it easy to prioritize and plan.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What does a new business need to do to get off the ground?

Black, Eli Kirk: It’s a challenge, because new businesses are struggling. Unless they’ve got a sugar daddy, they don’t have money. They have to be creative. The perception is if you hire an agency, it is going to be more expensive than if you bootstrap. That’s not true. You get more bang-for-your-buck and more return on your investment if you hire an expert. Experts should launch your marketing strategy. If you’re an entrepreneur and not a marketing expert, hire a marketing expert. It’s cheaper than you might think.

Brady, M2 Results: Marketing comes down to three fundamental things: targeting, positioning and messaging. First, targeting. Who exactly are you trying to sell to? It’s not enough to just say “college students.” Among those college students, who are you trying to reach? Second, positioning. Who are you relative to everyone else? What do you want to be perceived as? What is the role you seek to play? Third, messaging. What are the messages your target audience needs to hear? From there, it’s time to look at marketing tactics and to figure out the best way to get those messages sent out.

Chapman, LIME: These are all great points. One other thing I would like to add is integrity. Do not pretend to be what you are not. Do not over-promise because you will always under-deliver. Now is a fabulous time to start a business. You just have to be smart and maintain integrity.

Ferre, Cultivate Ideas: Now is the time to really understand what the marketplace is asking for and needing and demanding, and then find ways to transform your product or service to hit those magic buttons. At the end of the day we all want to save money, to make more money and to have our lives be easier. One of the best reasons to hire an outside set of eyeballs is they understand what the market is doing. They can help you take your product or service and meet the needs of the market. People are buying things, and we in this room know what they are buying. As a startup company, not bringing someone in as a marketing expert is as scary as not getting a business license.

Scott, MIM Creative: Study the competition. A wise man learns from mistakes, but a wiser man learns from others. That’s where advice from experts in the field comes into play. Taking in other people’s opinions and their successes and their failures can be easily transferred to your venture.

Hales, Stephen Hales Creative: Anybody who starts a new business needs to recognize they’re going to make mistakes. How do you minimize the mistakes you’re making? You get help. Get a lawyer, get an accountant, get a banker — then you need to talk to somebody who does marketing. Even if you don’t have the money to do everything marketing-wise that you want to do, at least you know what you need to start with and then you can build from there.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Thank you for bringing us up to speed on marketing. This is one of the most optimistic and upbeat roundtables we’ve had recently!

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Jeanette Bennett, BusinessQ: How will yesterday’s election affect the legal industry?

Randall Bateman, Bateman IP Law: In the overall legal industry, there will be a boom. A more liberal administration tends to promote more regulation, and when that happens people need to hire more lawyers.

Bill Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Many of Senator Obama’s supporters were trial lawyers, and they might find things a little more friendly from a federal perspective. But, really, it’s hard to say.

Barbara Melendez, Kirton & McConkie: I still have a question mark up in terms of international trade and immigration — and certainly in terms of business- and employment-related questions. While much has been said about immigration, little has been done, and I wonder how much will actually be done. It will be interesting to see what happens in those first 100 days. I’m going to hold my thoughts until our next meeting.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: I agree with Barbara. After all is said and done, much more is said than done.

Bennett, BusinessQ: How is the legal environment unique in Utah County?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: You mean besides the fee structure? (laughter) I’m always amazed and chagrined at dealing with lawyers half my age on the East and West Coast who are charging twice as much as I am for the same services. In general, Utah County fees are significantly less — even less than Salt Lake. I also see a higher level of integrity and collegiality among lawyers here than in other places.

Melendez, Kirton & McConkie: I spend the majority of my time in Utah County and part of it in Salt Lake. Nothing against my Salt Lake colleagues, but there is a strong sense of camaraderie here in Utah Valley. I hadn’t seen Chris for a couple of years until today, and it’s wonderful to see each other again. In addition, I have to ditto what Bill said about fees. I hear what some of my clients are paying their Los Angeles or Chicago attorneys and I think, “Well, I can do it for less.” But I almost don’t want to! (laughter) The fee structure here is so dramatically different even from other places in the Intermountain West.

Chris Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: We live in a place with 600 attorneys and a strong growth dynamic. Many people leave Utah County to develop a practice in other areas of the country, and then their kids go to BYU and marry local people and the whole family ends up coming back. Relationships with fellow attorneys here emphasize civility. I may have a case with Steve in three months and have the upper hand, then he’ll have the upper hand on another case in six or eight months. We have repeated interaction with each other, and this creates the collegiality.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: Utah County is coming of age. Law firms here are no longer the “little Utah Valley firms.” People don’t have to go to Salt Lake for a good attorney. But it’s also a small enough bar that lawyers are still good to each other. If I have a client who needs something I can’t offer, I say, “We don’t specialize in that, but I can refer you to an attorney who does.” When I deal with people on the coast, it’s a “gotcha” way of doing business. Here, I know fully well that if I pull a fast one on someone, it will come back to haunt me in another case. In the New York market, I’d never see him again. But in Utah Valley, I better treat Bill right because I may need a four-week extension on a motion someday. If I’ve treated him fairly in the past, I’ll get it. If not, I can forget about it.
Bennett, BusinessQ: What are the advantages to seeking legal counsel here in Utah County instead of going to Salt Lake City?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Our firm has now grown to almost 20 lawyers, and the virtue of that is we are able to meet nearly every legal need for our Utah County clients. We will refer clients to Salt Lake or Los Angeles whenever there’s a special need. You can’t be all things to all people, so we build relationships with firms outside the state so we can tap that kind of expertise.

Stephen Quesenberry, Hill, Johnson & Schmutz: You should hire the best lawyers whether they’re in Salt Lake or somewhere else. We lawyers should be free to refer our clients to people who have more expertise. I don’t think people today hire firms as much as they hire individuals.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: The days of the general practitioner are gone. We have nine attorneys in our firm, and each one focuses on one or two specific areas of law. We can’t do everything, and it’s a big deal to know when you’re in over your head. We are in the business of meeting people’s needs and exceeding their expectations. It’s our job to solve problems. If we can’t do that alone, we do it in a team orientation — not just with other attorneys, but with CPAs as well. We won’t be serving our clients’ interest if we don’t work together. In this valley where relationships mean so much, you need to give and receive repeat referrals in order to succeed.

Quesenberry, Hill, Johnson & Schmutz: Utah Valley is a great place to live and to practice law. There are more skilled people here all the time — and it’s important for us as attorneys to keep up with who is in Utah County. You can’t look back at which attorneys were in practice 10 years ago.

Melendez, Kirton & McConkie: Utah County is a great place to live. We recently put an office in Utah County as a service to our employees and clients. The reality is that we are all attorneys and we are providing a service to our clients. Our firm has 100-plus attorneys, and if we don’t know how to help clients, we refer out to people we have relationships with. That’s how you provide the best legal service — by making sure you are pointing your client in the best direction.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Many of our readers have recently started businesses. What legal services do they need in the early phases of their venture?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: They need to focus on formational mistake avoidance. We live in a world where you can pick up various legal forms on the Internet, and that’s risky business. Quite often, saving a penny now can cost a dollar later because you have to correct mistakes. There are more and more choices that have to be made. It’s a lot more intricate than the Internet would lead you to believe. Don’t be penny-wise and pound-foolish. Lawyers can give you advice on formation and protecting intellectual property. Sometimes new technology companies are ignorant and careless with their IP.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: Early involvement is really important. So many problems could be solved or even avoided if things were done correctly from the beginning. We had a client who came to us after the fact and ended up with a $2 million problem that could have been solved for $800 or $900 when it started. An attorney can help from the very beginning and continue to advise over time. They can look out for you. It pays off in the long run to have someone there to provide foresight. Early involvement is key.

Bennett, BusinessQ: Let’s move on to mid-sized businesses. What legal needs do they typically have?

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: Every company ought to have a “go-to” attorney. If a company gets in with a good attorney, he or she will help them make connections. Half the time, I don’t end up doing the work a client calls me for. They ask me who they should talk to, and I give them two or three names. It’s a way of providing quality legal work. It gives you connections to the best people in town. It gives businesses an access point — if you just pull out the phone book, you don’t know what you are getting. When you’re hiring an attorney, you want to get someone you have confidence in. Let that attorney line you up with people who can meet your various needs. With a specialty firm like ours, we’re constantly referring out. We keep on top of what’s new and who the quality people are in a given field. We can say, “Here are three or four people you can try.”

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Rand makes a great point. Find that go-to lawyer that you know and trust. We find people who have taken business law advice from the divorce lawyer in their Elder’s Quorum. Other people just go through the Yellow Pages and take a shot in the dark. It’s valuable to find that lawyer that you know and trust.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: If your attorney can do everything you send to him and he doesn’t occasionally say, “I can’t do that. Let me pass you off to so and so,” you probably aren’t getting good legal advice unless you have a very narrow focus. No attorney is good enough to be on top of all the areas of law today. We have subspecialties within our specialties.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: For example, our firm wanted to hire Barbara a few years ago when she was seduced by Kirton & McConkie to go to Salt Lake City —

Melendez, Kirton & McConkie: I wouldn’t say “seduced” and Kirton & McConkie in the same sentence. (laughter)

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Good point. We have one area we routinely refer to Barbara or somebody else. It’s an area where you practice at your peril.

Melendez, Kirton & McConkie: Even in-house general counsel knows they need to seek outside counsel. One of the unique things about Utah County is that you have a lot of companies transitioning from a small business to a medium-sized one. What happens during that transition is important. Are we the kind of attorneys who tell clients about recent legislation and how that can impact them? We need to tell them if they need to go through a training process. When companies are becoming larger, they may miss out on some of the nuances or changes in the law that will eventually stop them from moving from a medium company to a large one.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: As businesses grow, little issues become more and more important. As companies become more sophisticated, employment issues become more important. Statues that don’t come into play until you have 20 or 50 employees suddenly apply. A variety of growth issues dictate some debt and equity financing as you grow.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What can clients expect concerning charges for an e-mail or a phone call from an attorney?

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: Clients don’t want you to charge them for an e-mail you sent with a “heads up” on a change or an emerging issue. Nothing frustrates a client more than to have a relationship where the attorney becomes the enemy because of those ticky-tack fees. You don’t help yourself get long-term success or repeat and referral business if you don’t cultivate and grow that relationship of trust with the client. If you don’t respect your clients, they’re not going to respect you.

Quesenberry, Hill, Johnson & Schmutz: When I started, you typed letters to your clients on a typewriter. Now I can see an article in a legal journal, attach it to an e-mail and send it to a client with a message that says, “Look at this.” It takes 10 seconds. You can communicate a lot easier now, and clients shouldn’t be billed for it. That’s a fundamental way our practice has changed in this day and age. E-mail has changed everything.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: There has been a movement toward more of a flat-fee structure. It’s hard for people to sign a blank check for an unknown number of hours at $200 an hour. We need to communicate clearly a good fee agreement in which both parties are informed. We live in trying economic times. People are and will be less financially secure than they have been historically. Unless you’re a scooter salesman in San Diego, your industry will probably have to make some adjustments. I don’t think attorneys are immune to that. We have to pay attention to the market, and the most important thing we can do is communicate clearly with our clients.

Quesenberry, Hill, Johnson & Schmutz: We also need to make clients aware that there are options for lowering costs. Some people say to their lawyer, “You just do everything, report to me periodically and send me a bill.” Other people want to be really involved and ask what they can do to lower their bill. Clients can be involved in document production and in reviewing things. They can save money if they are aware of their options and if attorneys are willing to work with them.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: One of the keys to understand as far as billing is concerned is that “a stitch in time saves nine.” About 80 percent of litigation is preventable. Litigation for more than $1 million could have been avoided if someone had spent $1,000 on an attorney at the beginning. For example, if you think you have important technology, you need to sit down with an attorney and get it taken care of up front. One big fault of clients in Utah as a whole is that they are overly worried about spending money on legal fees. That just makes them spend much more on legal fees in the end. If you let a lawyer look at a problem on the front end, it will cost about $500. If you let it get worse, you can drop $20,000 on a case before you blink. You just spent 40 times as much by not addressing it head-on. It’s like maintenance on a car. If you don’t take care of little things as they happen, you’ll end up paying to replace the whole engine.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: The saddest thing a lawyer can hear is, “I just signed this contract. Tell me what it means. Did I do the right thing?” Very bright people can read a legal contract, but it means different things to lawyers or judges. There are implications and important meanings behind words. Even though you are brilliant and may even hold a Ph.D., you are still just reacting to the written word. It’s hard to recognize what’s not there. There are paragraphs your lawyer would put in for your protection.
Bateman, Bateman IP Law: Clients can get so caught up in a great new venture that they don’t think, “What happens if a year from now, the product isn’t selling? What happens if a year from now the other party finds another source for the product?” If the contract doesn’t mention they’re going to buy all of the product from you, you need to get it in there. Attorneys know what questions to ask. You get knowledge through experience, and lawyers generally have been through similar things with other clients. They can tell you about the hazards that will come up. It prevents both parties from becoming dissatisfied and spending more money on lawsuits in the long run.

Quesenberry, Hill, Johnson & Schmutz: Even with preparation, lawsuits still arise, and that is a crucial time. But many people just hire someone they know who is a divorce attorney when what they really need is a real estate attorney. People don’t shop around, and the divorce attorney can’t handle complicated real estate litigation. Why don’t people take more time to see what’s out there and see what other attorneys say? I’ve been involved in cases where the opposing attorney clearly doesn’t know what he’s doing. It causes money to be wasted. Cases that could settle for a small amount go on and on with fees. People should shop around, get second opinions, talk to other attorneys and find out which lawyers are good in particular areas. People tend to just go to the same person no matter what, and there’s usually a big bill as a result.

Melendez, Kirton & McConkie: It’s like going to a family doctor for a quadruple bypass. The results could be disastrous. We hear lots of names used for attorneys — lawyers, sharks — but an attorney is essentially a counselor. Create those relationships of understanding — it’s much easier to receive counsel up front than in the middle of a litigation issue. Does litigation occur? Sure. But can much be avoided? Absolutely.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: To continue with your analogy, sometimes it’s like going to the neurosurgeon for an ingrown toenail. There are times when you need a specialist, but there are also times you’re paying a high rate for something you don’t need. If it’s a pretty simple matter, you don’t need the top guy at the biggest firm.

Quesenberry, Hill, Johnson & Schmutz: I tell people to do those things themselves in small claims court.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: A good attorney should give that kind of advice.

Bennett, BusinessQ: In turbulent times, many companies are downsizing. How can businesses be legally prepared if they need to let people go?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: That’s an excellent question right now. I do mostly employment law, and already we can see the wave coming. More companies are going to be engaging in Reductions in Force (RIF). We sent a 10-page summary to our corporate clients on how to minimize problems — advice on how to do it right if they’re facing a RIF. You are going to have problems, but it’s all about how to minimize pain. It’s a longer discussion than we have time for today, but there are basic principles to follow. Avoid discrimination — be careful about age, race, sex and so on. Be really good with your communication, both to those who are let go and those who stay. The psychology even among those who are left on board can sometimes be really fragile.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: Now is a good time to make sure your ducks are in a row. Any issue that could involve a dispute over ownership needs to be resolved before you notify an employee that his job is over. Make sure you’re providing documentation. Those are things you need to consider as you make that transition from a small company to a mid-sized one. In a really small company, all the information is in the hands of one or two people. As you grow into a mid-sized company, that needs to change. You probably have an engineering staff — do you have agreements that cover intellectual property and state who owns copyrighted material? Make it clear to your employees that what they have done for the company isn’t theirs to take. It’s a lot easier to deal with those issues before announcing layoffs.

Melendez, Kirton & McConkie: While we are seeing turns and difficult times, difficult times only lead to better times. Companies need to prepare in that direction as well. Maybe these down times are the best times to filter out the fat and decide what works best for your company and train the staff that you have. That way, when things start changing again, you’re prepared.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What do you wish business owners understood better about your perspective as lawyers?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: First, most lawyers are good people, particularly in this valley. Secondly, we are in an age of specialization. When you come to us, you’re paying for good legal advice, and it’s money well spent. It can save a lot of trouble in the future. We have young entrepreneurs coming into our office all the time with two-, three- and even five-person partnerships, and they often have a “three musketeers” mentality. “All for one and one for all.” They think everything’s going to be great. What they don’t understand is that, over time, the ground shifts, even among the best of friends and partnerships. Someone decides to leave for greener pastures — what happens to his stock? Someone is pulling the load disproportionately and the others are riding on their coattails — what do you do then? You have to anticipate problems that might arise and create flexibility in how to deal with them in reasonable, fair ways. Those early assumptions hardly ever hold. You have to anticipate fairness.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: Your attorney can be your best friend because he or she will help you maximize success. You employ us to help you avoid problems.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: If you have the attitude that an attorney is a necessarily evil — or even is evil — it hampers the relationship. There are a few attorneys who will suck a company dry, but very few. Most attorneys get personal fulfillment out of seeing their clients’ companies grow. I don’t create something I can show my kids — I could show them a document but they wouldn’t find it very interesting (laughter). But when there’s a new invention or medical device, I can tell my kids that I helped patent that. I contributed in a unique way, and it’s almost like I’m part of the business.

Bennett, BusinessQ: How do you develop a relationship with an attorney who cares about your business as much as you do?

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: You’ll know your attorney is looking out for you if the advice they give is sometimes a bit painful. Sometimes my clients come to me and say, “This is such a great deal!” I’ll tell them not to take it, and six months later, they come to me and say, “Now I know why you told me not to do it,” and they trust me more. Honesty is also very important from the attorney’s point of view. I try to lose a client very quickly if I don’t think I can trust the client. I ask my clients to tell me the good, the bad and the ugly about a case. If I can’t trust a client, I will gently direct them to another counselor.

Melendez, Kirton & McConkie: It’s not a clear relationship at that point.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: The worst thing in the world is to make a representation to the judge fully believing it is true and then watch the opposing side pull out five incriminating e-mails from your client you knew nothing about. In litigation, a judges’ view of personal integrity is an attorney’s only asset. If the judge remembers that Bill’s always played it straight, he’s going to give Bill’s client the benefit of the doubt.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Great point. Reputation is worth everything, especially in this smaller valley. Rand also said that good lawyers engage in preventative medicine. I agree — if we can keep our clients out of trouble, we’ve saved them time and grief and maybe even saved their business.

Quesenberry, Hill, Johnson & Schmutz: Knowledge is power. I’m amazed at how many people have no idea about the laws that apply to their field. I always encourage my clients to read the newspaper and pay attention to their industry publications. You need to become educated with the laws in your area so you’ll know when you need to go to a lawyer. You’ll know when things are changing. That knowledge is powerful.

Bennett, BusinessQ: What final message do you want to leave with our readers?

Melendez, Kirton & McConkie: Relationships are essential. In this field, your value is based on your reputation. Judges will ask, is this an appeal from an attorney who made up all the facts and altered documents? That’s essential for clients to understand. In our client engagement letter, I have a paragraph that says the professional relationship will end if a client asks me to do something that violates the rules of professional conduct. It’s as simple as that. No success is worth me losing my license.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: Some clients think they’re doing well if they go get the biggest jerk out there — a guy who’s tough as nails — and he’ll pummel the other side. That almost always backfires because if your attorney is a jerk, the judges know it. The jury and the media also know, so it’s counterproductive. As soon as that attorney’s in the case, everyone’s posture changes.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: Those are the types of attorneys who give our profession a bad name. Luckily, they’re mostly in Salt Lake (laughing).

Quesenberry, Hill, Johnson & Schmutz: There are also names that show up in the courtroom that I’m happy about. I think, “This is someone who’s good to work with.” Even if it’s a person I’m constantly against, we can work well together. You can resolve cases, and there’s a high level of trust. Those attorneys should be commended.

Bateman, Bateman IP Law: If I’m working with someone I trust, I can be very candid and together we try to find the best solution. With the “jerk attorney” we mentioned before, you aren’t going to get that. That’s the advantage of having an attorney who’s good at working with other people. It’s OK for them to be aggressive, but they should also be fair and never misrepresent the facts.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Let me reinforce that point — it’s the “life is short” philosophy. Some lawyers can’t sleep at night if they haven’t engaged in a win-lose conflict, and as a result, they usually end up losing. One of my proudest possessions is a Nez Pierce peace pipe I received as a gift after I settled a major commercial dispute. A man gave it to me, teaching me that I could “smoke the peace pipe” and it would save me a lot of bad times. It reminds me to try to settle things — there are usually win-win solutions. He taught me to bring out the peace pipe before I pull out the tomahawk. You ought to try to settle it first.

Bennett, BusinessQ: No tomahawks here! Thank you for your legal insights today. Case closed!

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