In Utah County, we have one attorney per 1,000 residents. This high ratio means we’ve got the law on our side whether we are starting a business, creating a succession plan, protecting IP or heading into litigation. We took the law into our own hands — and conference room — with this BusinessQ legal roundtable, where we explored the value of attorneys (leave your lawyer jokes at home) and how the industry has changed (law books are a decoration instead of a go-to reference thanks to Al Gore’s invention — but did he have a patent?). The verdict is in — these legal experts lay down the law.

Jeanette Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What is unique about the legal environment in Utah County?

Bill Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: If you compare the Utah County bar to bars in other parts of the country, we’re a fairly collegial group. We extend courtesies to other counsel. There’s a common denominator of expected good behavior.

Chris Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: I’m thrilled to practice law in such a wonderful valley. We have great people. We have a competitive growth dynamic. There are 600 attorneys, which is one per 1,000 people. We’re courteous and civil practitioners, which I really appreciate. Some of my best friends are my competitors. People can have a negative view of attorneys, but we buck that trend.

Michael Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: Most of Utah Valley’s companies are homegrown. You can’t pacify clients by saying, “There is a corporate culture in force, and I don’t really want to do this, but I have to.” Here we have a lot of multi-level marketing companies still run by their founders, and you don’t have corporate ill-will that sometimes you get with clients from New York and other places.

Patrick Burt, Kipp & Christian: Although Utah has a rapidly growing economic base, it still has a small legal community. I started my career in Phoenix, and you would never run into the same judge or attorney twice. Here you have to be conscientious about being professional because you are going to run into the same people later. You have to build up the camaraderie, because it’s going to help in future litigation matters.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What are some of the top legal concerns you are dealing with in our community right now?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Clearly, the recession has had an impact on the legal profession. We’re seeing more debtor/creditor issues, like foreclosures. We’re trying to find ways to help our corporate clients stay afloat.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: There’s a lot more attention paid to appropriate capitalization of entities. Several years ago people just needed a good idea and things would work. Now people are focusing on the fundamentals that have always been important. You have to be well capitalized. You have to have a firm business plan that will take you through ups and downs.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Cost is a big thing. Everybody is feeling a pinch. You have to consider how to comply with the laws so you avoid litigation. Or if you are in litigation, you need to get your best result without breaking the bank.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: We see a lot more settlements now rather than going to trial, and the cases settle much more quickly than they have in the past. Alternative compensation is a bigger deal now. We do a lot of flat fee work that we didn’t do before. I’m in the intellectual property field. It’s a difficult decision to cut back on an IP portfolio, but we’re seeing a lot of careful paring back.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What can business owners do to find a good attorney and then maintain a good relationship?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: All too often we find that a new startup business seeks out counsel in their Elder’s Quorum and ends up with a divorce lawyer doing corporate work. Shopping around is good. Asking the right questions helps. Once a relationship is established, honesty and good communication make it work.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: You should communicate with your attorney early and often. We specialize in civil litigation. People show up to us when the wheels have already fallen off. From there we find a good solution with the situation they have handed us. You’d be surprised how many situations could have been avoided. If you talk to an attorney early and often, they can steer you away from problem spots.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Nothing beats preventative medicine, no matter the profession.

Caleb Frischknecht, Ray Quinney & Nebeker: Communicate with your attorney and insist on reciprocal communications. Be clear at the outset what the fee arrangement is and the scope of work.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: As some companies grow, their biggest problem is getting rid of their president. The same thing is true for counsel; you can’t be afraid to grow your counsel as your company matures. I like loyalty. It’s an important part of a relationship, but sometimes either the attorney has to say “You’ve outgrown me,” or the company has to recognize that. It’s part of having an honest relationship with your client.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: The nature of law has changed. There used to be general practitioners, but now there is individual focus within a framework of a general practice. Quite frankly, being able to say no to a client and refer them out is difficult. I had a conversation with a fellow yesterday, and I told him that Bill Fillmore was perfect for this case. It wasn’t Chris Dexter. You need to know your limits to be good, and know the area to which you dedicate yourself.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: On the other side, business owners also need to know their limits. My mentor always told me you need to let the client know we are the surgeons. You have to trust us when you hand us your case. Obviously we want your input, obviously we want you in the know. But ultimately we are the surgeons, so trust us.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: How has technology changed your industry?

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: My first 25 minutes of everyday are spent going to five professional Web sites that offer opportunities to chat with other IP attorneys. I’m able to have a dialogue with 50 people from different states to establish best practices and raise the level of my personal practice. By doing that every day, I’m right up on top of the changes that happen in my profession.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Everything is faster. In most ways, it’s a good thing, but it is harder to walk away from your office and turn your phone off. We’re also going paperless at an accelerated rate.

Frischknecht, Ray Quinney & Nebeker: Technology has sped things up. Everyone, including the courts, expect accelerated responses. We must be careful in addressing these demands not to lose the art of contemplative and serious analysis of what to those with minimal exposure to the process sometimes mistakenly view as simple and straightforward; it heightens our responsibility to communicate clearly with our clients.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: Law books have become antiques. When I started practicing 15 years ago, law books were important. Then we received an updated CD each quarter. Now legal research is on the Internet. You can find things immediately. That’s good and bad. Sometimes the consumer thinks they have the knowledge and expertise to answer all of their questions just by Googling. That’s not the case. Lawyers should be used as advisers as entrepreneurs go through the life cycle of their businesses.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: There’s such a temptation for legal consumers to go online and find a form and fill in the blanks and think that’s adequate. That’s so deceptive. There is so much more complexity that goes into forming a business. They need legal guidance. Filling in blanks leads to trouble.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Bill mentioned speed. I think e-mail is a pro and con for business owners and lawyers. It makes communication much faster, but it’s much easier to send off something you shouldn’t. One of the first things we do when we get a case is gather e-mail correspondence. As business owners and executives, you have to be careful what you say in an e-mail because it can be brought into a legal case.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: There’s a false sense of security with office e-mails. They become the treasure trove. People need to be very careful of the defamation risks involved in shooting off e-mails in the heat of the moment as Patrick indicates.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: Take that one step further with Facebook. We’re seeing a lot of social media problems arise because people think what they are saying is confidential, but it’s not. People post things they wouldn’t say in a professional environment.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What myths about your profession would you like to dispel?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: By and large, in this county and in the state of Utah, the phrase “honest lawyer” is not an oxymoron. Most of our professional colleagues are very ethical.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: Most of the lawyers who get past all of the barriers to entry are there because they want to help people. We want to solve problems. I don’t know any other profession that gives more pro bono back to the community. Bill, for example, sits on many boards and gives of his time. Attorneys don’t have horns. We like people, we like to help businesses and we like to help families succeed. That’s what motivates me.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: When I first started practicing, people would say I was too nice to be a lawyer. The perception is that we are fighting tooth and nail — and billing you the entire time we’re doing it. My experience is you get a lot further in law and you get better results for your clients if you treat people kindly and if you give respect and have integrity. We want our clients to refer other clients. We want a good reputation in the community.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: There are lots of ways to get rewarded in our field. Money was an important motivator early on. As I’ve gotten older, money is less important and I strive for other things. An attorney who is striving for appreciation and relationships is going to do things for free, and all you have to do is invite him out to lunch and be open and honest with him. As the population ages, you have a lot of older attorneys who aren’t driven by money, but are driven by relationships.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What are some of the common ways businesses are charged for legal services?

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: Everything I do is fixed fee, except for some contract negotiations. Clients know up front what they will pay. They know it’s going to cost them $650. If it’s $659, they will call me. People like fixed fee. I like it, too. Perhaps 30 percent of what an attorney does is fight with accounting and fight with a client over bills. It’s a complete waste of time.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: The fixed fee model is wonderful. I don’t know if I could afford to sign up for a blank check of $250 an hour with the risk of it ending up being $3,000 or $4,000 or much more. That is beyond the comfort level of a small- or medium-sized business. With fixed fee, clients can call the attorney without fearing, “Gee, I’m going to get this ticky-tacky bill for copies or a phone call.”

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Since most of our work is civil litigation, each case is unique and a flat fee usually won’t work. We go with the tried-and-true hourly rate, but we always make sure to provide a budget. Our firm is also good about sending monthly status letters to clients.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What are common legal needs that family businesses need to address?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: One of the key things is a succession plan. What happens when Dad dies? Failure to answer that question legally can sometimes lead to frustration and bitterness in families. You are well advised to take care of that in advance.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: The theme this morning seems to be communication. Attorneys can facilitate that communication within a family. Sometimes it’s difficult for family members to have those conversations without a disinterested third party.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Chris mentioned this earlier. You should have an attorney on board when you start the business. Sometimes family businesses aren’t ready for growth. Sometimes their paperwork or structure is not set up for that. They need ongoing legal counsel. Avoid the handshake oral agreements that often go along with family businesses. You need documentation and paper trails.

Frischknecht, Ray Quinney & Nebeker: Family businesses are very interesting. They involve succession issues, how to capitalize for growth, when and if to involve venture capital, how to pass on interests through estate planning, and a variety of other issues for a business that is dear to the heart of those who created it.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: If there is an attorney on board in a family business, it’s good to know who the attorney represents. Sometimes the attorney thinks he’s representing the company’s best interests, but family members have other ideas. The family needs to know the attorney’s role ahead of time.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: How have changes in real estate affected you?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: We’re doing a lot of negotiations with banks. Real estate developers have been turned upside down. The appraised value of their properties is now less than their loans. This creates all kinds of problems for the lender and borrower — and a lot of legal work to be done in that regard. Frankly, some of the best men and women in this valley are under water and struggling to find a way out of the recession. There are things that can be done, strategies for negotiating with borrowers. There is a considerable increase in these types of cases.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: We practice bankruptcy law. There was a decrease of cases after October 2005, but now it has come back with a vengeance. Unfortunately, some get themselves into situations that are unwise from the start; but most who face bankruptcy are well intended. Nobody wants to file bankruptcy. They would like to negotiate their way out and honor their commitments, but the economy manifests itself in terrible ways.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: The big problem in this valley and this state is the credit crunch. We’ve seen a lot of our clients who have done everything to weather the storm. They’ve cut expenses, they’ve laid off non-essential employees. They’ve cut back on frills and office parties. They’ve restructured their insurance plan, and the storm is still raging. They are up against the wall thinking the credit markets will ease up, but despite all the talk out of Washington, it hasn’t. Credit is still tough. Even those who are willing to lend are facing far heavier regulatory schemes. It’s a problem that isn’t going away quickly. I’m worried about small businesses who are stretched as far as they can go. The light isn’t there yet for a lot of them, and they don’t have much more capacity to protect their businesses. We’ve got to ease up the credit market.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: The national focus should be on small- and medium- sized business, which are truly the backbone of our local economy. If they can’t access capital, they can’t make payroll when things are tight. They can’t expand. They can’t do a lot of the things that would bless the lives of their employees.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: I bet Michael sees these trends in his IP practice.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: We’re doing more provisional pats. The real estate side, interestingly enough, has benefited tech companies because there’s cheap space out there right now. Tech companies have weathered the storm better than most. Most of my clients are hiring. They have a little more money to spend on IT because they are spending less on rent.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: Let’s look forward. I know you have a front seat to the trends in the local economy. What do you foresee happening in our community in the next 10 years?

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: The economy is going to rebound. We have a remarkable entrepreneurial engine in this county that is not on its deathbed. It’s been suppressed by a lack of credit, but we’ll see a rebound. The Utah economy has done better than most states.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: Utah didn’t get hit as hard as other regions because of our entrepreneurial spirit, our fighter mentality. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Utah rebound fairly quickly.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: The state and local government leaders have done a great job keeping us in the black and staying on top of revenue decreases. We’re well positioned for the future.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: One thing Utahns understand — and the national politicians need to understand — is that capitalism is still good. Self-interest rightly understood is a good thing. As we move forward with ideas and develop in a competitive way, we can make great things happen. That is why America has led the world this last century. We are the good guys economically and socially. As long as we are responsible and respectful in the way we do business and the way we live our lives, we can still be a great force.

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: My prediction is that in the IP world, we’re going to see a lot more globalization. If not in the next 10 years, soon after we’ll see a world patent. We’ll also see movement toward multidisciplinary practices where attorneys work in offices with accountants and engineers where a client can come in and get all those benefits from one visit.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What is the job market like for those coming out of law school now?

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: With two law schools in the state, we are churning out 300 new lawyers per year. Both schools prepare their graduates for big firm practice and constitutional law practice, and the reality is that many end up in small- to medium-sized firms, so it’s incredibly competitive. I’ve received 30 inquiries lately from people saying “Please, please can I work for free to get experience?”

Krieger, Kirton & McConkie: A lot of the 2009 graduates are starting now because they were deferred by law firms last year. Not only are firms not hiring people this year, but they are filling the few jobs they do have with people from last year.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: We read about big law firms laying off substantial numbers of young lawyers. That’s tough. A lot of young lawyers would be wise to see law school as a stepping stone to another profession.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: It’s a great time to be in law school, though. It’ll come around.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: What final message would you like to leave with our readers in regards to the legal industry?

Burt, Kipp & Christian: For business owners, it’s crucially important to find the right attorney and be in touch often. Keep them in the loop as business grows.

Fillmore, Fillmore Spencer: Most lawyers want to be perceived as a client’s friend and not a necessary evil. We want to be there for them.

Burt, Kipp & Christian: We take pride in our clients’ successes. It’s a joint venture.

Dexter, Dexter & Dexter: As attorneys, we can make a positive impact not only on the local community but on solving some of the issues people are dealing with. We are here to help.

Bennett, Editor of BusinessQ: Thank you for your time today. I learned a lot, and I know our readers will, too.

CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE MAGAZINE ONLINE